From lwn.net/daily today:
| Linus, meanwhile, is moving on with 2.5.4-pre1. This is the first
| patch that Linus has produced with Bitkeeper,
It somehow worries me, that non-free software now is at the core
of the prominent Free Software kernel linux.
The Free Software community has to be alert.
Its vision, the ability to do any task needed
completly with Free Software has to be worked for.
Bernhard
--
Professional Service for Free Software (intevation.net)
The FreeGIS Project (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure (ffii.org)
FSF Europe (fsfeurope.org)
>From jonas(a)gnu.org Thu Feb 7 10:46:13 2002
>Joerg Schilling <schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de> writes:
> A simple result of the fact that FSF stopped working on SCCS.
>
>I don't think the FSF ever worked on SCCS. James Youngman has
>implemented CSSC though, which aims to be compatbiel with SCCS. I
>don't know what status it has and the only real use I think is to
>retrieve SCCS-code from the respository and put it into some better
>revision control system.
The important thing _is_ that there was an official statement from FSF
that there will soon be CSSC. _This_ stopped other people from developing
working free SCCS alternatives. The result is that there is only CVS
which cannot be called free.
Jörg
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js(a)cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1
schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling
URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix
>From jeroen(a)dekkers.cx Thu Feb 7 16:46:40 2002
>On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 01:05:38PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
>> The result is that there is only CVS which cannot be called free.
>Am I missing something? AFAIK CVS is completely free.
Yup, you are missing the difference between free beer and freedom.
While the CVD program is free, it does not give me the needed freedom.
Please note: in the 1980s CVS has been free only for universities.
The CVS authors did create a script that converts SCCS
history fiules into RCS history files but not vice
versa.
If I would have beeen interested to test CVS and later would find that I
don't like it, I would not have the freedom to convert back to SCCS.
This was the most important reason for me not to convert to CVS in
the 1980s.
Bitkeeper SCCS has other limitations in freedom of use but I see no reason
why CVS should be any better.
Bitkeeper comes with source, you may use it for free if you send all delta logs
to openlog.org ??. You are allowed to modify it if the result passes the
regression test and if openlog.org is down for more then 3 months ??
then it becomes GPL'd.
Hello,
I am new to this list and have not checked the archives regarding this
question, so perhaps this matter has been brought to your attention already,
and needs no further discussion.
If it has not, here's the issue:
In their Yast License, section 3, they state something along the lines that
it is forbidden to duplicate SuSE linux (and ofc yast) without their prior
written consent (and possibly a fee)
Now, SuSE linux contains a vast number of programs that are licensed under
the terms of the GPL, or LGPL. One of these "programs" is a linux kernel
(suse contains a modified kernel, not the stock one from kernel.org).
However, the GPL forbids programs that use the license to use other
licenses/conditions, or to restrict the gpl further (items 4, 6 and 7 of the
gpl).
Below are the original postings to a list of some LUG, mainly included for
the references
Hoping for a clarification.
SuSE has been notified of this, about a month ago, and till now I have not
received a reply.
Robert Ribnitz
--
Hello,
Now it's 2002, and a happy/successful new year to all those at =
Linuxbourg..
Marcos came to me with a question, and I think I found why SuSE cannot =
be
copied.
The only thing is that to me, the formulation is not clear.
The YaST Copyright can be found at:=20
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/7.3/COPYRIGHT.yast (1)
The Debian Free Software Guidelines are at: =09
http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines (2)
The offending Paragraph in (1) reads:
"3. Dissemination
It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have
been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior
written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. Distribution of the
YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full or
in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require
the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH.
All programmes derived from YaST, and all works derived thereof as a
whole or parts thereof may only be disseminated with the amended
sources and this licence in accordance with 2b). Making YaST or
works derived thereof available free of charge together with SuSE
Linux on FTP Servers and mailboxes is permitted if the licences on
the software are observed."
or in German (farther down)
"3) Weitergabe
Es ist untersagt, ohne vorherige schriftliche Genehmigung der SuSE
GmbH YaST oder SuSE Linux gegen Entgelt zu vervielf=E4ltigen oder
unberechtigt vervielf=E4ltigte Datentr=E4ger zu verbreiten. Die
Verteilung gegen Entgelt des Programms YaST, dessen Quellen, ob
vollst=E4ndig oder teilweise ver=E4ndert oder unver=E4ndert, und der
daraus abgeleiteten Werke bed=FCrfen der vorherigen schriftlichen
Zustimmung der SuSE GmbH.=20
Alle aus YaST abgeleiteten Programme und alle vollst=E4ndig oder
auszugweise abgeleiteten Werke d=FCrfen nach 2b) nur mit den =
ver=E4nderten
Quellen und dieser Lizenz weitergegeben werden. Die kostenfreie
Bereitstellung von YaST oder daraus abgeleiteten Werken zusammen mit
SuSE Linux auf FTP-Servern und Mailboxen ist unter Beachtung der
Lizenzen der Software gestattet. "
in French (father down) the passage reads as follows:
"3) Diffusion
Il est interdit, sans accord pr=E9alable donn=E9 par =E9crit par SuSE
GmbH, de reproduire, =E0 titre on=E9reux, YaST ou SuSE Linux ou de
diffuser des supports de programmes reproduits sans autorisation.=20
La distribution, =E0 titre on=E9reux du programme YaST et de ses
sources, qu'il s'agisse d'une version modifi=E9e totalement,
partiellement ou ne comportant aucune modification ainsi que la
distribution des ouvrages qui en sont d=E9riv=E9s n=E9cessitent
l'autorisation pr=E9alable et =E9crite de SuSE GmbH.
Tous les programmes d=E9riv=E9s de YaST et tous les ouvrages qui en =
sont
d=E9riv=E9s totalement ou partiellement ne peuvent =EAtre diffus=E9s,
conform=E9ment au paragraphe 2b), qu'accompagn=E9s des sources =
modifi=E9s
ainsi que de la presente licence. La mise =E0 disposition gratuite de
YaST ou d'ouvrages qui en sont d=E9riv=E9s sur serveurs FTP ou bo=EEtes =
=E0
lettres est autorisee si les termes de la licence sur les logiciels
sont respect=E9s."
Now my questions to the list
a) are we allowed to copy YaST?
- may we charge for media/copying costs?
b) can the Yast license be considered "compatible" with (2)?
I am keen to hear other opinions, because if the answer to both =
questions is
yes, then there's no reason we do not support / have SuSE Linux.
Robert
--
Hello,
I looked at the issues involved in the YaST license a bit more closely.
Here is an extract of the GPL, which can be found at =
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft . Please note that only the english text is =
legally binding, but translations do exist:
"4. You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program excep=
t as =
expressly provided under this License. Any attempt otherwise to copy,
modify, sublicense or distribute the Program is void, and will automatica=
lly =
terminate your rights under this License. However, parties who have
received copies, or rights, from you under this License will not have the=
ir =
licenses terminated so long as such parties remain in full compliance.
5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not signed=
it. =
However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or distribute the
Program or its derivative works. These actions are prohibited by law if y=
ou do =
not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying or distributing the
Program (or any work based on the Program), you indicate your acceptance =
of =
this License to do so, and all its terms and conditions for copying,
distributing or modifying the Program or works based on it. =
6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Progr=
am), =
the recipient automatically receives a license from the original
licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms=
and =
conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the
recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein. You are not responsibl=
e for =
enforcing compliance by third parties to this License.
7. If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent =
infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), =
conditions are
imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that =
contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from th=
e
conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy =
simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinen=
t
obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at =
all. =
For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free
redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or=
=
indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and t=
his
License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program. "
Now, lets look again at the YaST License (source, see my earlier posting)=
""3. Dissemination
It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have
been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior
written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. Distribution of the
YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full or
in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require
the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH."
I see the following problem there:
SuSE Linux contains programs issued under the terms of the GPL, among oth=
er =
things the linux kernel.
In my opinion, however, this "Dissemination" violates clauses 4 and perha=
ps 7 =
of the gpl.
Robert
FYI,
In the socialist platform for the coming elections (presidency and
parliament), we can read some tips about free software and software
patents : http://www.parti-socialiste.fr/tic/ps-tic_2002.php (only in
French).
Some excerpts :
- French Socialist Party will oppose swpat unless proven positive
effect on innovation, and will as to fight the uncontrolled deviations
of the European Patent Office ;
- right to interoperability and the systematic use of open standards
must be transcribed into the law
- passage to Free solutions for office tools and specially made
softwares - without going to systematic obligation, competition between
potential suppliers being today, more than ever, to motor of innovation
in this matter.
- in parallel, developments made by or for administrations should
systematically placed under free license.
- at last, it is determining that the document published and archived by
the State resort more and more to open and perennial standards.
Fred.
--
Petition contre les brevets logiciels http://petition.eurolinux.org/
Frederic Couchet Tel: 06 60 68 89 31 / 01 49 22 67 89
APRIL http://www.april.org/
Free Software Foundation Europe http://www.fsfeurope.org/
>From: phil hunt <philh(a)comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
>> A simple result of the fact that FSF stopped working on SCCS.
>>
>> If you like to see free software to be used, you need to support it...
>>
>>
>> SCCS is the official standard for revision control.
>Don't most people use RCS or CVS?
*BSD was based on SCCS up to 1995 and most people did use SCCS up to 195 too.
As nobody did write nice higher level utilities based on SCCS it seems that
many people moved to CVS although the CVS file format is much more sesitive
to errors than the SCCS file format.
I don't own a POSIX.2-1990 standard but SUSv2 (UNIX-98) and POSIX-2001
both onluy mention SCCS as revision control.
I personally decided to keep with SCCS in the late 1980s because CVS was
acting in a way similar to M$: there was a script to convert SCCS -> CVS
but no way back. As I was not given the freedom to decide to go back,
I did stay with SCCS.
Jörg
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js(a)cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1
schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling
URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix