[Fsfe-se] [diskussion] Microsofts nya hot.

Jeremiah Foster jeremiah at mail.jeremiahfoster.com
Fri May 18 11:24:24 CEST 2007

Fri, May 18, 2007 at 01:35:39AM +0200:  Jonas Oberg mangled some bits into this alignment:
> Jeremiah,
> I've taken the liberty of posting this reply to both lists, and setting
> the Reply-To to fsfe-se at fsfeurope.org which I think is a better place to
> discuss the FSFE.
> > Where are the minutes from the board meetings?
> If you mean the minutes from the General Assembly, we file them
> regularly with the court in Hamburg where the FSFE is registered.

Why are they not posted on the web site?
> > Where is the criteria for getting elected to country teams?
> What happens generally is that one or more persons in a country team
> raises the issue of inviting someone else to join the team, whom they
> have presumably met and trust would be a useful addition to the team. If
> the rest of the team agrees, then the coordinator of the team invites
> that person to join.

So it is an entirely personal system - with no public accountability?

> > Where is the criteria for getting elected to the team? 
> This is similar to the country teams, but it is usually more strict.
> More people in the core team have to know and trust the new person that
> joins than in a country team.
> > Is there a mission statement saying that regular votes are held for elected positions?
> I don't understand what you mean by a "mission statement". 

A mission statement merely states the mission of the organization. This would 
be good because any Fellow who joins the FSFE would know concretely the goals
of the organization before hand, avoiding surprise or disappointment if they
found the policies of the FSFE to not be what they expected.

> The only
> elected positions in the way you seem to think of them that we have is
> the president, vice president and head of office. Those positions are
> voted on by the General Assembly.
> > What is the difference between the "GA" and the "Team"?
> The General Assembly is the legal body responsible for the FSFE. The
> core team is the executive arm of the GA and is lead by the president
> and the vice president.
> > In fact, the FSFE says they want a "structure that will allow transparency, plurality 
> > and participation." However what that means is unclear. For example, can any member
> > become "President"?
> Yes, any member can be elected for president. The members of the FSFE
> gather every year at the assembly where they vote on president for two
> year terms.

Has any one other that Georg Greve been President in the history of the FSFE?

> This is in the FSFE constitution which you can find on our
> web pages.

Could you provide a link to the 'constitution.' I searched for it and could
not find it.

> > For example, the last section called "Decision Processes" offers not one single
> > concrete demonstration of which office makes executive decision, who is directly
> > responsible for policy, or how that policy gets formed. It merely says things like;
> I think this shows at a misunderstanding of how we work. Very, very
> rarely do we take executive decisions. I think this happens only a
> couple of times a year at most. The FSFE is governed by consensus: not
> by executive decisions.

I'll ask the question again - consensus amongst whom?
> Your problem seems to be that you don't understand what consensus means.

I think it wise to avoid ad hominem attacks, it weakens your argument.

> In a consensus decision, there is no quorum, and no votes. There's
> either consensus or there isn't. If there isn't, you discuss the issue
> until you reach consensus.

So all decisions are made with _unanimous_ approval?

> > A simple, clear answer to those questions would server the fellows well. As it is it seems like
> > FSFE is just an extension of the FSF designed to prevent a non-FSF group from co-opting or forming
> > a group in Europe that might duplicate or obviate the FSF. 
> If you want to see a non-FSF group in Europe, I would suggest that you
> found one. There are many non-FSF groups in Europe already, like the
> FFII and EFF, working on areas that sometimes overlap, but I'm sure
> there are room for more.

I think there are quite enough organizations already. I would like accountability from
those groups that already exist, specifically the FSFE.


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