[Fsfe-se] Jabber official meeting

Henrik Sandklef sandklef at fsfeurope.org
Wed Aug 22 17:15:31 CEST 2007

Jeremiah Foster wrote:
> On Aug 22, 2007, at 4:05 PM, Henrik Sandklef wrote:
> Is this an alias for fsfe-se at fsfeurope.org or a separate email list?


> I participate in those projects that are open and advance human  
> rights. I believe debian is one of those projects, that is why I am  
> on the perl-packaging team.

Can anyone without a proven skill get inside Debian? Can Mr Waters, who
has no programming skills and knows nothing about licensing or
computers, become a Debian core member?

> I will continue to participate with the  
> FSFE but I have never seen a Fellow of the FSFE at any FSFE meeting  
> (side from yourself) and Jonas.

I have.

How do you tell a fellow from a non-fellow?

Do you really want us to make difference between fellows and non-fellows
during the meetings?

> Keeping the meetings open for all  
> will allow for;
> 	1. A larger community
> 	2. Greater openness

Again, all (100%) meetings have been public.

> Actually debian is quite different. Debian has a gigantic set of  
> policy documents which get voted on _before_ they come into effect.  
> FSFE does not have this. Debian removes it leadership and elects a  
> new leader every year. FSFE does not do this.

We elected president this year.

> Debian is free as in  
> beer to use and join. 

OK, I didn't know that. I thought it was hard to get in and do for
example work on their softwares

> FSFE is free as in freedom, not free as in  
> beer. Money blocks those who do not have the means from joining,  

Fellowship is 'blocked' by 60 euros. FSFE is free.

There are other ways of influencing FSFE. Emails are one them. Attending
meetings another. Helping out with work yet another. Sponsorship even
yet another.

> therefor FSFE is not open to everyone, just those who can afford it.

No, the fellowship costs 60 euros.

FSFE is free to join, given that the person have the skills needed.

FSFE is not closed to everyone who can't afford. We have numerous
volunteers who do lots of work.

> Debian is completely transparent - every process, every package,  
> every decision gets made in public with a great deal of debate. That  
> is why debian's founder calls it "process run amok." But that process  
> is democratic. 

> Where is the debate in the FSFE? 
> Where are the voices  
> for and against? 

For and against what?

Discussions are made here: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/discussion/

> Where are the emails to the mailing list?

I don't follow! Can you try again.

>> The steps above prevents take-overs better.
> Maybe, maybe not. Transparency can work as a brake on the aspirations  
> of a FSFE board that makes decisions that the Fellows do not approve  
> of, someone can take over the FSFE from the inside as well. In fact,  
> I would make the argument that the FSFE is just a branch of the FSF  
> and takes its marching orders from Boston.

Those are strong words. You are, of course, free to make that argument.

All the FSFs out there (Latin America, India, North America, Europe) are
different organisations that, of course, synchronise every now and then.
We all share the same goals.

have to leave now, i'll be back

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