Mozilla first, now FSFE?

Sat Mar 24 22:55:27 UTC 2018

I do apologize to everyone for use of the "f" word.  I have feared to open
my own email for the last 16 hours expecting the worst.  It was an
all-or-nothing post, i.e. either complete with raw emotion, as initially
written, or no post at all.  Total respect to everyone, their opinions and
the work of the FSF/E.

Today I tried to access Google Groups from an Android tablet that was not
logged-in to Google.  It would absolutely not allow me to see anything but
the login screen.  That was most irritating, and unnecessary.  They can
track me just from my ip that doesn't change, so requiring me to login is
just a convenience for their own advert software or something.   I guess so
they don't accidentally try to sell me toys b/c my kids come from the same
ip or something.   Bastien, why does OLPC participate in GSoC when Google
violates your values?  OT: Did you know that to apply to Google for a job
you must send a paper application?  I don't undersatnd that.

I wasn't suggesting to change FB from the inside Trojan Horse-style, just
numerically that changing 1 company would be easier, albeit
all-but-impossible, than changing millions of individual users.

Another FSFE member who wishes to remain anonymous, I guess, did send me
the following:

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 1:28 AM, somebody wrote:

> > Should I press the "send" button and own the above?  Hell yes.
>
> And I'm very happy yoou did. Thanks a lot!
> I will support you if needed, both in public and within fsfe's GA.
>
>
Respect to all,
-Charlie

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:22 PM, C. Cossé <ccosse at gmail.com> wrote:

> In all seriousness, I personally don't give a fuck about FSF/E's stance on
> FB.
>
> I've been on FB about 10x today.  It allows me to connect with the people
> I love, like and value.  They don't give 2 F's about FSF values and it's
> not for me to proselytize to them.  That has nothing to do with my
> relationships.   I talk to my girlfriend, my family, my colleagues ... if
> anyone in their right mind seriously believes that abandoning FB for the
> reasons that FSF/E suggests, well, they are living in a complete and total
> fantasy.  J. D. Nicholson, I like you and the way you think and appreciate
> that you are the only one who responded to my comment, which I made only to
> point out the hypocrisy of it all.  I'd say "friend me on FB" but I guess
> you're not "in".  That's cool.  I still like you.  Yes, after some
> reflection I just cannot agree with any of this nonsense.  FB enables
> people to connect in an ever-disconnected world.  Rather than boycott it
> altogether how about campaigning to change it according to FSF/E values?  I
> don't believe the Mark Z.  is part of the "Deep State" trying to undermine
> good in order to promote "evil".  C'mon and get real.  FB let's me
> communicate with fellow pilots, train enthusiasts, music enthusiasts, NORD
> keyboard players, my first grade classmates, people I've met while
> traveling around the world, interesting projects that I would otherwise not
> be aware of, news that isn't covered by mainstream media, hardships
> experienced by loved ones, the list goes on.  How much change to FB
> code/policy would it take to align with FSF/E "values"?  That's the easiest
> solution to the whole dilema, not to attempt to get the world to
> switch-over to whatever-the-f*ck obscure platform FSF/E deems
> "acceptable".  I'm not an enemy -- I believe in FSF for the most part, but
> this is absurd.  It's contra-reality.  What are you so afraid of?  Get of
> the internet if you're that neurotic about privacy.  Huh?  Go ahead and ban
> me.  I'm on your side, to a degree, but a practical degree.  God bless RMS
> and all his intentions, but you've lost the world by virtue of the FSF
> cornerstone tenet that closed source is immoral.  The universe doesn't
> recognize software freedom as either moral or immoral.  It's irrelevant in
> terms of morality.  You lose 99.9% of the world with that assertion.
>
> Should I press the "send" button and own the above?  Hell yes.  C&C
> welcome.  Yours Truly, Charles Cosse.
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 8:20 PM, J.B. Nicholson <jbn at forestfield.org>
> wrote:
>
>> C. Cossé wrote:
>>
>>> To me it's a question of consistency:  does FSFE not agree with FSF?  RMS
>>> says "absolutely no to Facebook", so then?
>>>
>>
>> I asked about a similar bit of FSFE policy on 2017-07-26 and is archived
>> https://lists.fsfe.org/pipermail/discussion/2017-July/011731.html
>>
>> As you can see the responses I received indicated a remarkable departure
>> from what Stallman (RMS) has said about open source's development
>> methodology and its practical consequences. He's quite clear to point out
>> in his talks and writings:
>>
>>   https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html
>>   https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
>>
>> that the two are radically different when faced with powerful, reliable
>> proprietary software. You can still come across articles in the tech press
>> that play out the very difference Stallman described so many years ago.
>>
>> I bring this up in order to back up the point that, no, apparently the
>> FSFE doesn't agree with the FSF on all points.
>>
>> Perhaps now that it's in vogue to get rid of one's Facebook account (if
>> one had such an account to begin with), FSFE will consider getting rid of
>> theirs and explain why. It seems eminently sensible to me to join with the
>> FSF's "not F'd" view per https://www.fsf.org/facebook.
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>>
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>> participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other:
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>>
>
>
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