Compulsory Routers in your country

Max Mehl max.mehl at fsfe.org
Fri Jan 17 10:51:26 UTC 2014


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# Carsten Agger <agger at modspil.dk> [ 17. Jan 2014 @ 10:41 +0100]:
> On 01/16/2014 04:12 PM, Max Mehl wrote:
>> So even in Denmark (I guess?), that's a pity. Can I ask you which service
>> provider you use? I just thought about adding all this information by you
>> and others in this thread to the wiki page [1].
> 
> I'm using Verdo Tele, which have a collaboration with www.waoo.dk/ - see
> http://www.verdo.dk/privat/kompetencer/tele.aspx

Thanks for that, I'll add it to the wiki soon.

> On the other hand, it's  a gadget at the end of a fiber optical connection.
> I suppose there need to me *some* device to convert that to Ethernet, and I
> don't know the technology well enough to know what my options are.

In most cases, these are standardised technologies: PPPoE, PPPoA, PPTP, DOCSIS
(and all should be Open Standards AFAIK). So another vendor would be able to
build an own box to make internet access possible. Unfortunately, phones and
TV is non-standardised in some cases, but at this point my technical knowledge
ends as well...

> I'm undecided as what to think of it. On the one hand, it's a piece of 
> equipment in my house which I can't control. [...] But that clearly means
> that the box is *their* infrastructure, not mine - my infrastructure begins
> at the box' Ethernet, phone and TV outlets (and I've put up a wireless
> network behind it - am shopping for one which supports OpenVPN to connect
> to AirVPN or a similar privacy-conscious provider. The Ethernet has a
> public IBv4 address so there's no NAT issue. I haven't tested IPv6.)

Exactly this was the center of discussion in Germany: Where does the ISPs'
infrastructure end and where does the customers' begin?

Many ISPs wanted their infrastructure end at the boxes ports where you can
plug in your Ethernet, TV and phones. We wanted their infrastructure to end at
the TAE connector [1], the port in the wall.
Some of the most important reasons for our line of arguments were named in
several emails in this thread, but the wiki should list them all [2].

But I understand your point if I haven't mistaken you: The first box "behind
the wall" is critical because it converts the complex signals into something
your equipment (TV, Phones) understands. If something in the up- and
downstream is wrong, the box may have to do with it. And with this box, they
can control you access rights to different services.
It's easier for most of the users, and for ISPs of course as well. And do not
get me wrong: I think it's good that ISP offer such services because it makes
it easier for non-techies to get internet connection and up-to-date technologies.

Whereas in my opinion, one should always have to possibility to throw out all
"untrusted" devices and only plug in his own technology without losing any
functionality. And at this point, it should not matter what the reasons are:
security concerns, environmental or ecological ones, ethical issues or
compatibility problems.

The downside of this whole topic is the complexity (just have a look at the
mass of mails in this thread), and the fact that most of the people do not
want to have the free choice, so it's hard to address the public.
The upside is that you have hardware producers and vendors, very technical
people and IT magazines on your side and that you can argue with many
different points, depending on the people you talk with.

Thanks for your thoughts, Carsten. I really enjoy the exchange of opinions here!


Best,
Max


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAE_connector
[2] https://wiki.fsfe.org/CompulsoryRouters

- -- 
Max Mehl - Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE)  -  fsfe.org
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About me: http://fsfe.org/about/mehl | Blog: blog.max-mehl.com
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