Bugs on web page
mjr at phonecoop.coop
Sat Jan 14 18:56:00 UTC 2012
Reinhard Müller <reinhard at fsfe.org>
> Am Donnerstag, den 12.01.2012, 15:18 +0000 schrieb MJ Ray:
> > I think it's also an example of three ways that FSFE's decision-making
> > is undemocratic:
> > 1. IIRC the autonomy is only at team level (in debian, for example,
> > the autonomy is also generally present at volunteer and project);
> The autonomy is at the level of who's affected. Decisions about DFD are
> generally taken by people involved with DFD. Decisions about FSFE's
> booth at FOSDEM are taken by the people participating in the booth. [...]
I don't think that's quite true. Decisions about one's own work for
the team seemed to be usually taken by the team, even when they do not
affect anyone else much. While that is often what employers do, it's
not always how voluntary groups work.
> While I strongly believe that this is the most reasonable way to handle
> it, I don't think the definition of group size is not a matter of
> democracy but rather of subsidiarity.
It may also involve subsidiarity (which is an organizing principle
that is basically a sub-matter of democracy), in which case it is also
tied up with other things that I hold dear, like autonomy,
independence, freedom of association and stuff like that.
> > 2. the process is structureless/undocumented;
> Even worse: the process is flexible and up to the group to define, as
> well as all members of the group are fine with it.
Trouble is: that either means redefining the process on each new
member, or the new member having to believe whatever they are told by
older members about how decisions are taken, which may be codswallop.
> I know that some Fellowship groups make decisions while they meet
> over a beer.
To such groups, I wish a abstemious temperance teetotaller!
[... 3. Decisions never reported ...]
> Sometimes our decision processes take long, also related to key people
> in FSFE travelling a lot. Sometimes we simply forget to report back. If
> in doubt what came out for a specific issue, just ask.
> FWIW, I don't think that this is a matter of democracy, it's a matter of
I think it's both. Communication is necessary for democracy.
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op.
http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
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