GNU Hurd

Marcus Brinkmann marcus at
Tue Mar 19 14:18:07 UTC 2002

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 11:17:55AM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> >>From Marcus.Brinkmann at Mon Mar 18 15:08:21 2002
> I am sorry, but from reading your mail, I see no other way than writing
> this answer to clear things up. You are:
> Ignorant			-	Don't like to accept that there may be
> 					a better make system than the one you
> 					already lnow.

You are putting this into my mouth.  What I say is that i have never
seen anyone in use, from my experience of porting 2000 Debian packages
(and no, I don't know smake, as no Debian package, not even cdrtools,
uses smale in its build process) that is better than the GNU tools.
There might very well be better ones, and smake might be one of them.
But it must be really good to convince me, as I think it is more
important to use tools that developers are familiar with then do it
differently 9eg there must be a real gain in doing it differently, so
that it is worth changing or learning how to do it).

> Learn resistant			-	You did not even read a single line
> 					of the README's and man pages in order
> 					to understand how the Schily makefile
> 					system works.

Indeed.  I have never ever seen a single byte of the Schily makefile
system.  I never said I had.  I thought I was clear about it in my mail:
When I am porting third party software, I port the Debian package
because I have to do it anyway, and I am not doing a port twice, once
for the upstream package and once for the Debian package.  Sorry, it is
a strange coincidence that the Debian package doesn't use the Schily
makefile system.  Maybe this should be fixed and it should use it.  I
don't know.

I am assuming here that the DEFAULT and RULES stuff is not the Schily
makefile system.  Because what the Debian package did at build time was
definitely not based on automake or anything like that.

> People who behave like you are called DAU in Germany. This is:
> Dümmster Anzunehmender User (Silliest possible User).


> >I doesn't make sense for me to use smake because I am stuck with the Debian
> The Debian packaging system has no relation to the Schily makefilesystem.
> You definitely don't need this Debian system at all.

Sorry, but I need it.  In fact, as long as Debian does not use the
Schily makefile system, I don't need that one at all.  For third party
packages (non GNU), I need exactly what is in Debian, nothing more and
nothing less.

Are you saying that the build system in Debian has nothing to do with
your software?  Was it added by the Debian developer?  I would be very
surprised to learn that.  Care to enlighten us about the nature of the
stuff that s used by Debian to build the package?

> If errno does not fit into 31 bit, then it is broken because erno must be of 
> type int ant here is no statement to allow errno to be negative.

Maybe it was 30 bits.  I don't remember it too well anymore.  It was a
problem that ruby was using one bit of the int for itself, so the
effective bit length of int was reduced by one, which wasn't enough for

> The Schily makefile system is the most advanced make system I know.
> It compiles without manual intervention on all supported and on many unknown 
> platforms.

It is nice to hear.  The same can be said about the system used in most
GNU packages.  However, the Debian package does not use it.

Note that the reason I did not provide you feedback was because I knew
that I did not try smake, and that you would not be interested in
hearing about criticism of the non-smake build procedure.  The only
reason I followed up was that you mentioned it in reply to Jeroens mail.

I am very sorry that I don't have time to investigate your smake system
right now (I don't have need for the features you mentioned).  The dumbest
user of the world is now going back to build the GNU system.


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