The Hurd

Eneko Lacunza eneko.lacunza at
Mon Mar 18 18:38:57 UTC 2002

Hi Jeroen, 

El lun, 18-03-2002 a las 18:44, Jeroen Dekkers escribiĆ³:
> > 	Anyway, I think there would have been another Linux 8), but it is of
> > course arguable.
> I don't think so. Linus wanted to write an operating system. Almost
> everything was already there written by GNU. He only had to write a
> kernel and a few other things. He misnamed this to "Linux" and didn't
> credit GNU.
> This was the history lesson for today.

	I knew all those things. The thing is that I only see that you somewhat
"hate" Linus/Linux for some reason. I don't agree in any ways with you
in that point.

	Don't you see that the GNU system has been greatly helped by Linux?
Linux helped it with more testing, more popularity, more developers...

	Maybe, even if Linus noticed the Hurd, he would have started Linux
anyway. It would have been legitimate, so please stop with this issue.

> > > > 	The fact is that people wanted:
> > > > 	. Reliable systems
> > > > 	. Free systems
> > > GNU/Hurd is a free system and in theory it can be much more reliable
> > > than a system with a monolithic kenrel. (Mail microkernels vs
> > > monolithic kernels just to me and not the list, please. We are already
> > > offtopic enough)
> > 	True. The problem is that even their creators don't recommend it for
> > production purposes 8)
> Yes, if we did a lot of people would have been disappointed and would
> say the Hurd sucks. I still recommend developping things for it. When
> the theories are becoming practice I will start recommending it for
> active use. :)

	I hope so. Don't you see why is now Linux so popular? And it even now
disappoints lots of people... can you imagine in his beginingS?

	The fact is, that promises of a superior design are not enough. Things
must be proved, then people, MAYBE would change.

> > > > 	And Linux and the others gave it to them, "quickly" (faster than The
> > > > Hurd could, probably).
> > > A reimplementation is always simpler and Linux was indeed faster
> > > because it was much easier to do.
> > 	This is not the point in this discussion. It's not Linux's fault that
> > the Hurd a redesign and not a reimplementation.
> No, but it made it easier for Linux to get developers and users in a
> short time. The developers the Hurd needs for about 10 years. The Hurd
> finally gets them.

	And what? This is (maybe) a sad thing, but I think that Linux has done
an excelent work.

> I think it makes sense. The Hurd could have been much better than
> Linux is at the moment because of the OO design. When you've more than
> hunderd developers (I don't know the number due to the fractation of
> Linux), OO helps a bit. Structure in the development also helps. Linux
> lacks this both. And to refer back to the original discussion,
> bitkeeper doesn't provide this.

	Well, I don't think this is a good place to talk about programing
paradigms. Anyway, I think that modularization is almost as good as OO,
sometimes even better, and I think Linux has lot's of modularization.
Maybe the problem is the monolitic design, but I don't see it creating
such a problem... I think it even requires that de kernel is well

> > > > 	But "meantime", I think we have some excelent, free unix derivatives.
> > > IMHO Unix is really too old and the last development on its design was
> > > back in the 80s. Sure, the current free unix clones are nice, but that
> > > doesn't mean we can't improve the situation.
> > 	Of course we can and we must develop new design and see if they are
> > superior to the current ones. 8)
> Are *you* going to help? :-)

	That's a very good question 8)

	I would want to do lots of things, but unfortunately a day only has 24
hours. Currently I'm more interested in promoting and defending Free
Software, that developing new innovative system designs. I think this
also can help the Hurd and other innovations. 8)


Eneko Lacunza

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