[love at cptech.org: [IPN] EC consultation on the Hague treaty on Jurisdiction and Foreign Judgments]

Xavi Drudis Ferran xdrudis at tinet.org
Wed Sep 26 08:25:27 UTC 2001

Sorry for crossposting, but I think we should send some comments 
to this new EU consultation, because as many have said, it raises
several issues. It is probably too radical to be accepted, but 
it doesn't hurt to show strong opposition. I have still to read much
(that is, direct sources). I've only read opinions on the treaty, 
not the treaty itself. 

Apart from problems on freedom of speech, etc. it would void any 
attempt to stop DMCA-like laws and legalisation of sw-patents in Europe, 
because any country that has such laws could impose them upon 

<Reminder Links>
http://petition.eurolinux.org/hague/ (english)
FFII and Eurolinux pages on this subject
Consumer Project on Technology (USA)

  Harm from the Hague - By Richard Stallman - Europeans have
energetically opposed and thwarted the attempt to introduce software
patents in Europe. A proposed treaty, now being negotiated, threatens
to subject software developers in Europe and other countries to
U.S. software patents -- and other harmful laws from around the
world. The problem is not just for programmers; authors of all kinds
will face new dangers. Even the censorship laws of various countries
could have globalized effect.

  EuroLinux: How to protest the Hague Convention Friday June 08, 12:18
PM EDT [ Patents and Trademarks ] - By Grant Gross - Members of the
EuroLinux Alliance are calling on members of the European Open Source
community to protest a proposed change in European Union law that
could cause the EU to accept U.S. software patents.

St?fane Fermigier, a leader of AFUL [the French-speaking Linux and
Free Software user association], suggested European Open Source
software users contact their local members of parliament or members
of the EU parliament to object to parts of the proposed Hague
Convention. The Hague treaty, which would allow participating
countries to recognize each others' jurisdiction in international
disputes, would essentially enforce participating countries' patent
laws and censorship laws across all countries signing on.

U.S. Internet patents to be enforced in EU ?Paris. 2001-06-05. The
draft Hague Convention is to be revised from June 6th. The Hague
Convention defines a set of provisions for the execution of foreign
judgements in the event of international disputes. Current drafts
include industrial property and intellectual property within the
potential scope of the proposed Convention. If the current draft were
approved, the Hague Convention would eventually allow: 1.to enforce US
Internet patents in EU; 2.to enforce non-EU laws in order to censor EU
Internet web sites.

</Reminder Links>

----- Forwarded message from James Love <love at cptech.org> -----

From: James Love <love at cptech.org>
Organization: http://www.cptech.org
To: info-policy-notes <info-policy-notes at lists.essential.org>
Subject: [IPN] EC consultation on the Hague treaty on Jurisdiction and Foreign
X-BeenThere: info-policy-notes at lists.essential.org
List-Help: <mailto:info-policy-notes-request at lists.essential.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:info-policy-notes at lists.essential.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/info-policy-notes>,
	<mailto:info-policy-notes-request at lists.essential.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: Notes on Information Policy issues from CPT <info-policy-notes.lists.essential.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/info-policy-notes>,
	<mailto:info-policy-notes-request at lists.essential.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/info-policy-notes/>

EC consultation on the Hague treaty on Jurisdiction and Foreign

*  The European Commission is finally doing a public consultation on the
proposed Hague Convention on Jurisdiction and Foreign Judgments.  The
proposed (but not firm) meeting date is October 24 in Brussels, and the
deadline for signing up to testify is October 15.  People can also
submit written comments.  Everything can be done by email to:
mailto:JAI-coop-jud-civil at cec.eu.int

*   It is expected that the music, movie, software and other e-commerce
businsses will turn up in force.  Copyright owners are expected to push
to have copyright included in the convention.  There should be a
difference of views expressed on inclusion of copyrights, patents and
trademarks, as well as speech related civil litigation, including
defamation and libel, plus a host of other issues.

*  FMI, http://www.cptech.org/ecom/jurisdiction/hague.html

*  It is important that people who have concerns about the inclusion of
speech and intellectual property in the convention make their views
known.  If the convention is widely adopted and includes intellectual
property, European citizens will be subject to restrictive and broad
e-commerce and software patents issued in the US, Japan and other
countries, the USA and other countries DMCA style legislation, and more
generally, the most restrictive global IP regimes, which will limit the
public's rights even more than whatever national laws currently exist
(the "weakest link" problem).   If speech related torts are included,
the defamation laws in China, Jordan, Egypt, the UK and elsewhere will
have global reach.

*   Persons who participate in the consultation should also address the
need to protect the public from one-sided and unreasonable "click-on"
contracts, such as the recent Microsoft EULA for Frontpage, what says,
for example:

   "You may not use the Software in connection with any
    site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia, 
    or their products or services, infringe any intellectual 
    property or other rights of these parties, violate any 
    state, federal or international law, or promote racism, 
    hatred or pornography." 

For more examples of click-on contract terms, see:

*   To sign-up to testify, send an email note to:
JAI-coop-jud-civil at cec.eu.int

  Jamie Love <love at cptech.org>

-------- Original Message --------
Commission Hearing on the Draft Convention of the Conference of the
Hague on Jurisdiction and Foreign Judgments in Civil and Commercial

Deadline to apply:  October 15, 2001

Provisional date for the Hearing: 24 October 2001

at the Charlemagne Building, Rue de la Loi, 170 - 1040 Brussels

To attend, a short registration form is available at:			
Please complete this form in BLOCK LETTERS and e-mail it 
(JAI-coop-jud-civil at cec.eu.int) or fax it (+32/2-299.64.57) before 15
October  2001

Written answers to questions (feel free to answer only a few): 
should be email to: 
JAI-coop-jud-civil at cec.eu.int or fax it (+32/2-299.64.57 before the

The First Diplomatic Conference in June 2001, produced an "Interim Text"
(available at: http://www.hcch.net/e/workprog/jdgm.html) which contains
many options and alternatives for issues of concerns for consumers. 
There had been several informal meetings of experts on E-commerce and
intellectual property related issues but these questions were found to
be difficult and controversial.  There was little consensus on many
other issues such as consumer and employment contracts.  Thus, the
General Affairs and Policy Commission of the Hague Conference decided to
defer to January 2002 the decision concerning the continuation of the
negotiations.  Consultations are to be undertaken between now and then
to determine the preconditions for the conclusion of the negotiations
relating to both the substance and the method and timetable for future

In this context, the Commission is organizing a hearing in Brussels to
cover the latest status of the Convention.  The questionnaire include
among other topics: the need for such a Convention, the proposed
structure of the Convention, its  scope, general rule of jurisdiction,
choice of court, contracts concluded with consumers, employment
contracts, torts, patent and trademark rights, copyrights, provisionnal
and protective measures and relationship between the Hague Convention
and European instruments.

Note: the agenda has not been finalized yet but we know it will be a
day-long hearing with probably a few speakers addressing selected
Info-policy-notes mailing list
Info-policy-notes at lists.essential.org

----- End forwarded message -----

Xavi Drudis Ferran
xdrudis at tinet.org

More information about the Discussion mailing list