---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jeremiah Foster jeremiah.foster@gmail.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:15:40 +0100 Subject: Re: Fellowship on fsfeurope.org To: Karsten Gerloff kgerloff@web.de
since there is no full-size description of the Fellowship on the fsfeurope.org site, I took the text from fsfe.org/about and shortened and adapted it a bit. You'll find it attached. Please let me know if you find it appropriate for putting on the fsfeurope.org website. Since the Fellowship is so important, it would imho be better to give it a separate sidebar link, rather than putting it in with the other projects. What do you think?
I think the fellowship idea is a damn good one. I also think it is a steep price for a single individual to pay. Can't there be a lower fee for FOSS hackers to pay to get access to all these goodies?
Jeremiah
At Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:16:55 +0100, Jeremiah Foster wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jeremiah Foster jeremiah.foster@gmail.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:15:40 +0100 Subject: Re: Fellowship on fsfeurope.org To: Karsten Gerloff kgerloff@web.de
since there is no full-size description of the Fellowship on the fsfeurope.org site, I took the text from fsfe.org/about and shortened and adapted it a bit. You'll find it attached. Please let me know if you find it appropriate for putting on the fsfeurope.org website. Since the Fellowship is so important, it would imho be better to give it a separate sidebar link, rather than putting it in with the other projects. What do you think?
I think the fellowship idea is a damn good one. I also think it is a steep price for a single individual to pay. Can't there be a lower fee for FOSS hackers to pay to get access to all these goodies?
I agree with that, especially for countries where most people aren't as rich as in Western Europe (the 10 new EU countries for example). It might be a good idea to give a minimum and preferred amount of money to pay, and then let the fellow decide how much (s)he wants to pay (the minimum or some amount more than that).
The fellowship program is a nice way to create a community with dedicated people and also get some money, but you have the risk of excluding the poor if the price is too steep. And I think that's something we don't want.
Jeroen Dekkers
|| On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:16:55 +0100 || Jeremiah Foster jeremiah.foster@gmail.com wrote:
jf> I also think it is a steep price for a single individual to pay.
Given that 10 EUR per month translates to ~1 pizza or a few beers in most countries, it does not seem a very steep price, to be honest.
If you individually think that you cannot pay this, then there is the reduced rate -- and we will simply assume that you will be honest about whether or not you can pay the full price or not.
jf> I think the fellowship idea is a damn good one.
It was a lot of work to set up and still is.
But we also felt it was the right thing to do.
So I am very happy to see that you agree -- thanks!
Regards, Georg
Georg C. F. Greve wrote:
|| On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:16:55 +0100 || Jeremiah Foster jeremiah.foster@gmail.com wrote:
jf> I also think it is a steep price for a single individual to pay.
Given that 10 EUR per month translates to ~1 pizza or a few beers in most countries, it does not seem a very steep price, to be honest.
If you individually think that you cannot pay this, then there is the reduced rate -- and we will simply assume that you will be honest about whether or not you can pay the full price or not.
Is there a monthly payment option? This was unclear from looking at the web pages without actually signing up (a week or so ago...). For many of us, that would make this problem go away. I would hardly notice a monthly fee of 5-10 EUR but paying it all at once would be painful. I've been paying the FSF for my Associate Membership in this way for years now.
/Karl
--On 03/08/05 21:12:46 +0100 Karl Jonsson wrote:
Given that 10 EUR per month translates to ~1 pizza or a few beers in most countries, it does not seem a very steep price, to be honest.
If you individually think that you cannot pay this, then there is the reduced rate -- and we will simply assume that you will be honest about whether or not you can pay the full price or not.
Is there a monthly payment option? This was unclear from looking at the web pages without actually signing up (a week or so ago...). For many of us, that would make this problem go away. I would hardly notice a monthly fee of 5-10 EUR but paying it all at once would be painful. I've been paying the FSF for my Associate Membership in this way for years now.
Hi all,
I agree with Karl's opinion that a monthly fee is 'easier' to calculate with. For me as a student I hesitated signing up due to the 'high' costs at first. If I had the option of ~5-10 EUR per month for a fellowship, I think I would have signed up already.
Then I would try to omit ~1 pizza each month. But it's harder (at least for me) to omit ~12 pizzas in one month ;-)
So maybe someone can say something about the payment methods? I'm interested in that topic, too.
kind regards, Sven
|| On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 00:11:07 +0100 || Sven Krewitt deadbob@web.de wrote:
sk> So maybe someone can say something about the payment methods? I'm sk> interested in that topic, too.
We discussed the possibility of monthly payments.
The problem is that it adds some complexity to the procedures and some financial overhead -- which is often transaction-based. And it is not clear how useful it would be in the end.
Associating payments to bank accounts with the fellowship dues requires manual labor, which is an expensive resource. If things are done through PayPal, that may be not as bad, but there is still an added overhead.
Also, what about the SmartCard? When should it be sent out? Probably not immediately for monthly payments, as it would take more than one rate to cover the overall handling costs. But when should it be sent? And how to structure this process robust enough? How to avoid spending too much time to explain this to people who ask why they did not yet get their SmartCard?
So monthly payments would have to be higher than just dividing the yearly rate through 12 -- and the percentage of overhead would be higher for the reduced rate.
So we might end up with something like 12 EUR per month full rate and 8 EUR per month reduced rate in order to come to the same net contribution.
Yearly rates are common for many things from insurances to taxes and a normal part of any financial planning. That is why in the end it seemed like most people who feel strongly compelled to go with a monthly rate are probably likely to choose the reduced rate, as their financial calculation is apparently tight.
So the question ultimately seemed to be coming down to: "How much more difficult is it to spend an additional 52 EUR once per year?"
We were not decided whether the answer to this question warranted the added work and overhead to allow for monthly payments.
Do you think it does? Or should we for instance only allow monthly payments for the full rate? What is your perspective?
Regards, Georg
--On 03/09/05 21:24:13 +0100 Georg C. F. Greve wrote:
|| On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 00:11:07 +0100 || Sven Krewitt deadbob@web.de wrote:
sk> So maybe someone can say something about the payment methods? I'm sk> interested in that topic, too.
So the question ultimately seemed to be coming down to: "How much more difficult is it to spend an additional 52 EUR once per year?"
We were not decided whether the answer to this question warranted the added work and overhead to allow for monthly payments.
Do you think it does? Or should we for instance only allow monthly payments for the full rate? What is your perspective?
Hi,
thanks for your answer and sorry for my delay.
I understand now that there is an overhead of costs and work for a monthly fee and I have been thinking about it in the last week. In my opinion paying that more money just for a monthly rate is not attractive to me.
In this case I would rather do the yearly payment than to pay the overhead in work you have. The fellowship should support the work of the fsfe and not create more work to do.
So maybe it will take a while until I sign up but I hope for the future project that many others will until then.
kind regards, Sven