Hi all,
I'm still writing that patents letter, although I've overcommitted myself a bit recently so work is slow. I have a draft, but it gets rewritten every time I look at it, so it's not yet at a stage where it would be useful to post it and ask for comments.
A request: Can people find a few great technologies that *aren't* patented?
I'm thinking about SMS text messaging? is that patent-free? Does anyone know of other technologies that have really taken off?
so that we can say "look at how progress really happens"
It has to be stuff that a politician would know about. Telecommunications stuff is extra-brill since the big telecoms are pushing for patents, so it would be great if we could distinguish between what's good for one (foreign) company, and what's good for progress (or useful innovation).
I'll be looking into this myself, but I'm not very technology-aware.
Aidan Delaney previously mentioned Voice Over IP as an example.
Lasty (rushed mail), the FTC's patents report is brilliant, the software patents section starts on p153 (printed page 44) and is 13 pages long. The whole doc is 315 pages, but just reading the software section is very encouraging.
Ian provided a link to the FTC report in a recent post.
Stallman is quoted 16 times in the report!
Telecoms stuff + not patented = IP As in the protocol that underpinns the whole Internet -- Thank you, Aidan Delaney.
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
[Via GrepLaw. "Note: International residents are welcome to take this action."]
Help Broaden the World IP Debate!
The cost of software, availability of medicine and production of valuable scientific knowledge are, in large part, determined by the policies of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). Today, WIPO focuses on restrictive intellectual property regimes, but it doesn't have to be that way tomorrow. WIPO is holding a budget meeting in Geneva from September 8-10, where it will decide whether or not to schedule increased discussions of open and collaborative development models (OCDM). OCDM includes open source software like Linux and collaborative scientific endeavors like the Human Genome Project - valuable initiatives that benefit the public. WIPO expressed support for such a discussion, but backed off when the U.S. Patent and Trade Office (USPTO) warned it away. Tell the USPTO to reconsider its misguided stance and support public information goods throughout the world! Note: International residents are welcome to take this action.
HTML, HTTP (and you can point out that BT tried it recently how different things would be if they had A: succeeded or B: imposed/threatened their patent from the beginning), EMail. These are all very obvious but you didn't mention them,
F
On Wednesday 14 January 2004 18:44, Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
Hi all,
I'm still writing that patents letter, although I've overcommitted myself a bit recently so work is slow. I have a draft, but it gets rewritten every time I look at it, so it's not yet at a stage where it would be useful to post it and ask for comments.
A request: Can people find a few great technologies that *aren't* patented?
I'm thinking about SMS text messaging? is that patent-free? Does anyone know of other technologies that have really taken off?
so that we can say "look at how progress really happens"
It has to be stuff that a politician would know about. Telecommunications stuff is extra-brill since the big telecoms are pushing for patents, so it would be great if we could distinguish between what's good for one (foreign) company, and what's good for progress (or useful innovation).
I'll be looking into this myself, but I'm not very technology-aware.
Aidan Delaney previously mentioned Voice Over IP as an example.
Lasty (rushed mail), the FTC's patents report is brilliant, the software patents section starts on p153 (printed page 44) and is 13 pages long. The whole doc is 315 pages, but just reading the software section is very encouraging.
Ian provided a link to the FTC report in a recent post.
Stallman is quoted 16 times in the report!
-- Ciaran O'Riordan - http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/ _______________________________________________ fsfe-ie@fsfeurope.org mailing list List information: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-ie Public archive: https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-ie
Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
A request: Can people find a few great technologies that *aren't* patented?
I'm thinking about SMS text messaging? is that patent-free? Does anyone know of other technologies that have really taken off?
Um, the Internet? :-)
Seriously, the Internet would never have happened were it not for exactly the kind of open standards and interoperability that software patents inhibit. It is the perfect example of a revolutionary technology that thrived exactly because nobody had a monopoly over its standards and protocols. If the current software patent culture existed during the early days of the Internet we simply wouldn't have an Internet in its current form today.
Quite simply, software patents would have slowed or even prevented the emergence of the greatest intellectual and educational tool since the printing press.
Ian.
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Ian Clarke writes:
Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
A request: Can people find a few great technologies that *aren't* patented?
I'm thinking about SMS text messaging? is that patent-free? Does anyone know of other technologies that have really taken off?
Um, the Internet? :-)
Also, the Web is *explicitly* patent-free -- or at least, if patents exist on technologies that are to be WWW standards, they *must* be licensed so that anyone can implement them without paying royalties, ie. as if no patent existed.
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20030520.html
- --j.
jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:
Ian Clarke writes:
Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
Can people find a few great technologies that *aren't* patented?
Um, the Internet? :-)
Also, the Web is *explicitly* patent-free
ok :) I suppose the Internet would fit the bill. and email.
Any more though?
What new-era software-technology does the public use?
Internet, email, mobile phones - SMS, PCs, ???
(I don't regard IRC, ICQ, AIM, etc. to be in wide use yet. Am I wrong? are they patent-free? is Voice Over IP in wide use?)
Is SMS patent-free?
PCs : no company needs a patent license to develop software for a PC. (I'll have to think of a really good wording for that though. Maybe "programming" is more to the point, I'll keep thinking...)
I'd like to be able to point out that all software innovations that have pushed society forward, are patent-free. So what other examples are there?
On Wednesday 14 January 2004 22:08, Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
I'd like to be able to point out that all software innovations that have pushed society forward, are patent-free. So what other examples are there?
The classic example is the spreadsheet "if visicalc had patented..." this also applies to the word processor.
Point out also that there are companies that claim to have a patents on various types of e-commerce (and also on e-commerce in general I think). They have not really made a big effort to enfore these patents against the whole world, just a few weak individuals at a time, but if/when they do start fighting in earnest, it could be a major problem,
F
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Fergal Daly writes:
On Wednesday 14 January 2004 22:08, Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
I'd like to be able to point out that all software innovations that have pushed society forward, are patent-free. So what other examples are there?
The classic example is the spreadsheet "if visicalc had patented..." this also applies to the word processor.
There's a page for that. google Dan Bricklin patents and he discusses it in detail.
Also I seem to recall a good quote from Bill Gates -- made before they decided to go patent-crazy ;)
- --j.
I've been meaning to find a reference for that quote for ages and here it is
http://quote.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates
"If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented, and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today."
Source: "Challenges and Strategy" memo dated May 16, 1991.
The quote on that page is longer but that's the important bit. Could be a good one to include in the letter,
F
On Wednesday 14 January 2004 22:54, Justin Mason wrote:
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Fergal Daly writes:
On Wednesday 14 January 2004 22:08, Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
I'd like to be able to point out that all software innovations that have pushed society forward, are patent-free. So what other examples are
there?
The classic example is the spreadsheet "if visicalc had patented..." this
also
applies to the word processor.
There's a page for that. google Dan Bricklin patents and he discusses it in detail.
Also I seem to recall a good quote from Bill Gates -- made before they decided to go patent-crazy ;)
- --j.
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Fergal Daly writes:
http://quote.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates "If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented, and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today."
Source: "Challenges and Strategy" memo dated May 16, 1991.
I'd like to include it, but citing a leaked memo seems a bit, I don't know, amateur/unreliable/unprovable/something. IFSO only gets to send one letter (per month anyway), so I wouldn't like to give them any cause to discredit this one.
Also, Harney is probably an MS fan since they provide 300(?) jobs in Ireland. Rather than pointing out the evil of BillyG, we have to point out the negative affect that swpats would have on small/medium biz, new job creation, technological progress, and competition.
I wouldn't mind citing the memo if I could point to another credible source that cites it (like the FTC report), but it's probably no coincidence that politically credible stuff doesn't cite leaked memos. (I don't know, I'm an amateur really, just trying to guess pitfalls and being careful since it's not my home terrain.)
I'm thinking of including some pages from the FTC report in the envelope with the letter, and will highlight a few good bits. FTC URL: http://www.ftc.gov/os/2003/10/innovationrpt.pdf
I'll try to post a draft of the letter on Friday.
Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
I'd like to be able to point out that all software innovations that have pushed society forward, are patent-free. So what other examples are there?
I think it would be easier to think of the software innovations that pushed society forward that *weren't* patent free.
RSA and LZW are the only two widespread algorithms for which patents existed yet which still received widespread usage that I can think of off the top of my head. Effectively alternatives were found for both until their patents expired.
E-Cash might be an example of a potentially useful software innovation that hasn't got anywhere, arguably because it is patented up to the hilt.
I find it hard to believe that a lack of examples of non-patented innovations which mattered, or patented innovations which didn't, could be the core issue in this debate - since neither is in short supply.
We need to identify what the core issue is here that decision makers need to be persuaded of. I think we will make a mistake if we nitpick minor points of fact, we have to be clear and unambiguous. Something like:
"The Internet is the most important innovation since the printing press. If software patents had existed in the 1970s, the Internet would still be science fiction today".
Ian.
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Ian Clarke writes:
Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
I'd like to be able to point out that all software innovations that have pushed society forward, are patent-free. So what other examples are there?
I think it would be easier to think of the software innovations that pushed society forward that *weren't* patent free.
RSA and LZW are the only two widespread algorithms for which patents existed yet which still received widespread usage that I can think of off the top of my head. Effectively alternatives were found for both until their patents expired.
Plus they were free to use in areas where their patents did not apply -- such as Europe! Very handy for Baltimore, I would have thought.
- --j.
Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
Lasty (rushed mail), the FTC's patents report is brilliant, the software patents section starts on p153 (printed page 44) and is 13 pages long. The whole doc is 315 pages, but just reading the software section is very encouraging.
Ian provided a link to the FTC report in a recent post.
Stallman is quoted 16 times in the report!
Extensive extracts can also be found at http://www.ffii.org.uk/ftc/ftc.html
Any suggestions on how to further refine the page would be very welcome.
James.
Dé Céad, 2004-01-14 ag 18:44, scríobh Ciaran O'Riordan:
Hi all,
I'm still writing that patents letter, although I've overcommitted myself a bit recently so work is slow. I have a draft, but it gets rewritten every time I look at it, so it's not yet at a stage where it would be useful to post it and ask for comments.
A request: Can people find a few great technologies that *aren't* patented?
The spreadsheet, as originally implemented in Visicalc (I think), was not patented. This was the "killer app" that started personal computing. It led to Lotus 123 (which increased adoption of IBM PCs) and of course Microsoft Excel, which seems to be a de facto standard for tabular data in the business world. The spreadsheet patent would only have expired around 2000.
This is speculation on my part, but had the spreadsheet been patented, there's a good chance that lots of other business/PC software such as word processors would have been patented too.
David
Point them to the public reaction when they found out about the W3c's plan to allow patents:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment
Especially:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment/2001Oct http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment/2001Sept
Seth
Ciaran O'Riordan wrote:
Hi all,
I'm still writing that patents letter, although I've overcommitted myself a bit recently so work is slow. I have a draft, but it gets rewritten every time I look at it, so it's not yet at a stage where it would be useful to post it and ask for comments.
A request: Can people find a few great technologies that *aren't* patented?
I'm thinking about SMS text messaging? is that patent-free? Does anyone know of other technologies that have really taken off?
so that we can say "look at how progress really happens"
It has to be stuff that a politician would know about. Telecommunications stuff is extra-brill since the big telecoms are pushing for patents, so it would be great if we could distinguish between what's good for one (foreign) company, and what's good for progress (or useful innovation).
I'll be looking into this myself, but I'm not very technology-aware.
Aidan Delaney previously mentioned Voice Over IP as an example.
Lasty (rushed mail), the FTC's patents report is brilliant, the software patents section starts on p153 (printed page 44) and is 13 pages long. The whole doc is 315 pages, but just reading the software section is very encouraging.
Ian provided a link to the FTC report in a recent post.
Stallman is quoted 16 times in the report!
-- Ciaran O'Riordan - http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/ _______________________________________________ fsfe-ie@fsfeurope.org mailing list List information: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/fsfe-ie Public archive: https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-ie