FSFE-IE September 2003

fsfe-ie@lists.fsfe.org

17 participants
31 discussions

Fwd: Creighton: e-Patents and Financial Investing WAS Re: [Fsfe-ie] Summary of meeting #3
by Adam Moran 08 Sep '03

08 Sep '03

hi, Minutes [Glenn Strong ] wrote: >>> - We should assemble a list of current amendments (as they come out) >>> - remove the proposer information (to remove any prejudice >>> that may be associated with the name). >>> - Identify each as a Yes/No for our position. >>> - Briefly discuss our reasoning for each decision. >>> Use these to indicate to our MEPs the kind of amendments we >>> would consider acceptable and unacceptable. > Aidan Delaney wrote: >> Ok. But we still have to push the ideal that swpats are bad and we don't wan >> them, full-stop. this is the line with the stance i have been asked to adopt for this group http://webarchitects.co.uk/ - my next email is going to be to our local mp richard allen who has this blog http://www.sheffieldhallam.co.uk/blog/index.php ... with the same attachment as i have put on this one - laura creightons analysis is the coherent argument of the small to medium size business Minutes [Glenn Strong ] wrote: >>> - We could provide a "throwaway" web site >>> (e.g. irish-anti-e-patents.org) that we could direct >>> people to. > Aidan Delaney wrote: >> It looks like I may be getting http://ifso.cs.may.ie, if that's any help. if it would help we could set up a site on our servers which run http://mkdoc.com/ - this would allow for multiple editors, rss import and export, all the usual spiel - we could set it up at a temporary domain until one was picked - Ciaran could blog away happilly until more folk joined in ;) ... and we'd be able to re-purpose each others content to suit firstly our mutual and secondly individual goals - my guess its all the same goal in any case strange how the same mode of production used for FLOSS is now our friend again to protect it - you never know; there may be hope :) -- adam

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RE: [Fsfe-ie] Truncated message about ComputerScope
by adam beecher 07 Sep '03

07 Sep '03

> following up this issue. I think my call for volunteers was truncated. I > I didn't see any call for volunteers from this address. Volunteers for what? > That way we can get a community both aware and behind us. Maybe someone > kind might even sponsor a site for us? > I'll be happy to host anything needed for this and any other campaign that will advance FS and/or OSS. You're also welcome to the template wrapper I use on broadband4ballinlough.org and ie-watch.org and, if I have time, a template for the site. I'm not a fingerpainter, but I'm not so bad. I'll defer on content though. ;) adam

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Truncated message about ComputerScope
by Mel McWeeney 07 Sep '03

07 Sep '03

Sorry I missed the meeting (maybe we could organise a regular schedule -I subscribe via digest). My email to Computer Scope was replied to and they are very interested in following up this issue. I think my call for volunteers was truncated. I want to be able to direct them to whoever are best versed on the issues. That way we can get a community both aware and behind us. Maybe someone kind might even sponsor a site for us? Mel

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Summary of meeting #3
by Glenn Strong 04 Sep '03

04 Sep '03

Present: Robert Fitzsimons Ciaran O'Riordan Glenn Strong Malcolm Tyrrell Discussion, topics, and suggestions: - Given the current focus, would it be useful to organise an anti e-patent body independent of FFII? - We could provide a "throwaway" web site (e.g. irish-anti-e-patents.org) that we could direct people to. - We should assemble a list of current amendments (as they come out) - remove the proposer information (to remove any prejudice that may be associated with the name). - Identify each as a Yes/No for our position. - Briefly discuss our reasoning for each decision. Use these to indicate to our MEPs the kind of amendments we would consider acceptable and unacceptable. - There was some question as to what would actually happen if the directive was passed - precisely what changes would be made to Irish law? - We should produce a challenge to Arlene McCarthy's Fact Sheet (that is, a specific response document that addresses the Myth/Fact items McCarthy listed here: http://vrijschrift.org/swpat/press/final_factsheet1092003.pdf) And also, of course, considerable discussion of (among others) hardware, software and recumbent bicycles. -- Glenn Strong

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list of McCarthy's comments
by Ciaran O'Riordan 04 Sep '03

04 Sep '03

I'm compiling a non-definitive list of Arlene McCarthy's claims about her directive here: http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/docs/pro-patents/ I'll add one or two more docs there on thursday (then I'm disappearing for 10 days.) I'd like to send a letter to our MEPs again before the next plenary vote to dispell the real myths being circulated. Explaining to our MEPs how to spot a good amendment should also get a mention. Anyway, more on this some other time. Ciaran.

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The big amendment we want
by Ciaran O'Riordan 04 Sep '03

04 Sep '03

Right, I said that Jose R E Castro tabled the FFII mini-prosal. It turns out that it was jointly tabled by fellow UEN MEP Brian Crowley :) Here's the text of the amendments in some formats: http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/docs/uen_amendments/ If we can get this amendment adopted, we'll be on the home straight. Alex Macfie mailed me the amendment info earlier today. What should we do? I think a very small note to our MEPs would be good. They know that many of us hate the current proposed directive, but they don't know that we all support this amendment, so a half-page mail/post/fax saying "When we said NO, this is what we meant". Might be the best? (we don't want them snowed under with long texts) comments? c.

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Latest on patents, JURI not involved, my mistakes
by Ciaran O'Riordan 04 Sep '03

04 Sep '03

I was talking to Alex Macfie on the phone earlier, he's the vice prez of FFII, so his info should be pretty solid. He says the proposal has not been handed back to the JURI, the vote has simply been delayed. The previous set of amendments have been binned and MEPs have been asked to rethink their amendments. The hope is that the MEPs will work together to produce fewer, better amendments. The final list of amendments won't be available until about 48 hours before the vote, so we have to tell our MEPs what *type* of amendments we want. He recommended not pointing MEPs to the UEN amendments[0] that I posted. Instead he said we should use the text of some of those amendments as examples when telling our MEPs what we want. [0] http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/docs/uen_amendments/ The PPE party is the largest party in the EP and it is mostly pro-directive. Fine Gail MEPs are all part of this party so it's particularly important to get them on our side. We already have Avril Doyle, we need the other three too. Alex said he'd mail two documents to me, I'll make them public as soon as I get them. One was some good amendments by someone, they other was a doc that McCarthy has been circulating. It may be this doc: LWN.net today had a story about Arlene McCarthy, she's produced a small FAQ: http://vrijschrift.org/swpat/press/final_factsheet1092003.pdf It's important to let our MEPs know that this is a pack of lies but for us to be believable, we have to know the directive and the arguments inside out. He mentioned that the amendments from Castro/Crowley are a bit messy and kinda contradict themselves in places. He doesn't know what amendment 13 was meant to mean. It seems they jumbled together parts of three amendment sets that were supposed to be separate. So what's to be done? We should probably do nothing until we feel really confident that we understand the text of the issues. (We know the issues, but we must debate them using EU texts.) A voting list, or a voting-type list should be sent to our MEPs before the next big vote. The date is not set but it is very likely to be Sept 22nd. He said the FFII amendment proposal pages were a good place to point MEPs to. They should give a good picture of what we want. I'm not sure I agree with this, the FFII site can sound quite angry at times, maybe we should mirror and editted copy. So, probably the best thing we could do would be to make a list of our own amendments (stolen wholesale from others), and pass that list on to our MEPs as a voting guide. (and include a justification for the merits of each amendment.) Ciaran O'Riordan

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patents status withdrawl etc.
by Ciaran O'Riordan 04 Sep '03

04 Sep '03

As we know, the proposal has been sent back to JURI so that they can produce something less contraversial. Brian Crowley is the only Irish MEP on JURI, I'm told by Alex Macfie that the "the UK lobbyists" have been in contact with Mr. Crowley, and he's anti-swpats. I've requested more details from Alex (and details of where this action was coordinated). Alex also says that a Portuguese MEP has tabled the FFII mini-proposal as an amendment. If this amendment makes it to the plenary we should tell our MEPs to vote Yes on it. We should probably hold our action until we hear the details of the Mr.Crowley situation, I'll forward all info as soon as I get it. ciaran.

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Intro
by Ian Clarke 04 Sep '03

04 Sep '03

Hi All, On Ciaran's suggestion I have signed up to this mailing list, and I just wanted to introduce myself. I have noticed that you guys seem to be one of the most coherent faces of the anti-patent movement. I am the founder and coordinator of the Freenet Project, a reasonably well known free software project that has been around since 1999. I am also the CEO of a US-based software company, and am involved in a variety of other commercial projects. I am a native of Navan, Co. Meath, although I have been living in California for the past few years. I plan to move to Edinburgh, Scotland in early October. The issue of software patents in the EU has been of great concern to me, not just as a free software developer, but as a software developer in general (I also develop non-free software). One of my reasons for leaving the US is the insane patent system here as it relates to software, clearly I don't want the EU to fall into the same trap. Back in June I contacted Avril Doyle, MEP for Leinster, to alert her to this issue - and it is my understanding that she has been supportive of the anti-patent movement since then. Anyhoo, I just wanted to introduce myself and will try to follow developments and help in any way that I can. Kind regards, Ian. -- Ian Clarke ian(a)locut.us Coordinator, The Freenet Project http://freenetproject.org/ Weblog http://slashdot.org/~sanity/journal

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For the record...
by Malcolm Tyrrell 02 Sep '03

02 Sep '03

Hi everyone. Even though the e-patents proposal is being sent back for revision (or whatever), I think we can all pat ourselves on the back for our efforts. Ciaran, Aiden and myself mailed the "no e-patents" letter to all 102 UK & IE MEPs. The final letter had 25 names on it, 9 from this mailing list. The letter is likely to raise awareness even if it is slightly out of date when it arrived. Highlights: * Ciaran: got to mail Ian Paisley! * Aiden: got to mail someone called Den Dover! * Malcolm: I got to mail Arlene McCarthy, advising her against her own legislation! Well done everybody, Malcolm. P.S. Thanks also to Glenn Strong who helped me stuff some envelopes.

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FSFE-IE September 2003