FSFE-IE December 2003

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24 participants
50 discussions

EUCD/InfoSoc latest
by Ciaran O'Riordan 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Hi all, I've been talking to Martin Keegan of UKCDR. He's concerned by item #3 of the draft implementation. Appearantly section 87 of the Irish Copyright act was one of the best things Ireland had, so it's removal is not good. I'm looking into this further and will be talking to martin again later, but thought I'd pass this on. Anyone that wants to have a read of the Copyright act of 2000 can find it here: http://www.entemp.ie/copyright.pdf Also, I mailed Tony McGrath, but I just told him the draft was quite good be were concerned over the preservation of the publics right to access a copyrighted work with their choice of software, commercial or non-commercial. I mention that we were meeting tonight and would hopefully have a joint position prepared for Friday or Monday. There's no indication of how long we have to comment on this. The draft was made available on Nov28th, and in a previous mail, Mr.McGrath said that it was available for a "short comment period". -- Ciaran O'Riordan - http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/

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RE: Fsfe-ie Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19
by Daire Kelly 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

With regards to free software in schools, I thought I'd post this, maybe you guys might be interested. 2 People I know have been involved in administrating 2 secondary school networks, based on free software, for some time. The biggest obstacle to wider adoption of free software in irish schools is a lack of training and resources for maintaining such a network. With this in mind they have put together a project to simplify the administration of such networks. Check out the Functional Spec here: http://www.computing.dcu.ie/~tjohns-cacsse4/functionalspec.html >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:11:37 +0000 >From: John Evans <jevans(a)eircom.net> >To: <fsfe-ie(a)fsfeurope.org> >Subject: [Fsfe-ie] Free software in schools >Message-ID: <BBFE47B9.4B35%jevans(a)eircom.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Precedence: list >Message: 5 > >Hi > >I have some contacts on the IT committees of the various post-primary school >principals' associations. I had the idea of approaching these committees >to >see if they were open to receiving a short presentation on the benefits to >schools of using free software. > >In my letter I mention gnu/linux and StarOffice, and go on to outline some >putative benefits to schools. These benefits are my version of the benefits >listed by Stallman's article at > >http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/schools.html > > >He argues for the *exclusive* use of free software in schools, a feature >I >do not mention in my letter, as I do not think it is the most important >issue at this time. > ><BENEFITS> > >Free software can save the schools money. Free software gives schools, like >other users, the freedom to copy and redistribute the software, so the >school system can make copies for all the computers in all the schools. > >School should teach students ways of life that will benefit society as a >whole. They should promote the use of free software just as they promote >recycling. If schools teach students free software, then the students will >use free software after they leave. > >Free software permits students to learn how software works. When students >reach their teens, some of them want to learn everything there is to know >about their computer system and its software. That is the age when people >who will be good programmers should learn it. To learn to write software >well, students need to read lots of software and write lots of software. > >One of the most fundamental mission of schools is to teach people to be good >citizens and good neighbours--to cooperate with others who need their help. >In the area of computers, this means teaching them to share software. The >free software installed by the school could be available for students to >copy, take home, and redistribute further. > >Teaching the students to use free software, and to participate in the free >software community, is a hands-on civics lesson. It also teaches students >the role model of public service. </BENEFITS> > >I think there may be a positive response to such an approach. > >This leads me to suggest that the working group (or whatever) that is >putting the IFSO together might put forward a panel or panels of individuals >who would be prepared to take part in presentations to such bodies as I >mention here, or to take part in meetings with MEPs etc, such as the >possible meeting with PdeRossa that I mentioned in an earlier mailing on >Dec5th. > >(I was a bit surprised that nobody seemed interested in replying to my >question: how do want to do this? Maybe I didn't make it clear enough that >I >wouldn't see myself as being capable of making any kind of authoritative >statements on EUCD!). > >Best Wishes > >John Evans

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EU patents deal hits linguistic divide
by Ian Clarke 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Does this have anything to do with our battle against patents? :- http://www.eupolitix.com/EN/News/5bf5399a-e02a-41e1-8045-3090d34fcf13.htm Ian.

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Free software in schools
by John Evans 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Hi I have some contacts on the IT committees of the various post-primary school principals' associations. I had the idea of approaching these committees to see if they were open to receiving a short presentation on the benefits to schools of using free software. In my letter I mention gnu/linux and StarOffice, and go on to outline some putative benefits to schools. These benefits are my version of the benefits listed by Stallman's article at http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/schools.html He argues for the *exclusive* use of free software in schools, a feature I do not mention in my letter, as I do not think it is the most important issue at this time. <BENEFITS> Free software can save the schools money. Free software gives schools, like other users, the freedom to copy and redistribute the software, so the school system can make copies for all the computers in all the schools. School should teach students ways of life that will benefit society as a whole. They should promote the use of free software just as they promote recycling. If schools teach students free software, then the students will use free software after they leave. Free software permits students to learn how software works. When students reach their teens, some of them want to learn everything there is to know about their computer system and its software. That is the age when people who will be good programmers should learn it. To learn to write software well, students need to read lots of software and write lots of software. One of the most fundamental mission of schools is to teach people to be good citizens and good neighbours--to cooperate with others who need their help. In the area of computers, this means teaching them to share software. The free software installed by the school could be available for students to copy, take home, and redistribute further. Teaching the students to use free software, and to participate in the free software community, is a hands-on civics lesson. It also teaches students the role model of public service. </BENEFITS> I think there may be a positive response to such an approach. This leads me to suggest that the working group (or whatever) that is putting the IFSO together might put forward a panel or panels of individuals who would be prepared to take part in presentations to such bodies as I mention here, or to take part in meetings with MEPs etc, such as the possible meeting with PdeRossa that I mentioned in an earlier mailing on Dec5th. (I was a bit surprised that nobody seemed interested in replying to my question: how do want to do this? Maybe I didn't make it clear enough that I wouldn't see myself as being capable of making any kind of authoritative statements on EUCD!). Best Wishes John Evans

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EUCD: comparison with other countries' versions ?
by James Heald 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Does anybody know whether there is an EUCD 'compare and contrast' page anywhere on the net, analysing the differences between different member states' implementations ? Before we communicate a position to the powers that be, I think it would be ++advisable to check in the text of the proposed Irish implementation with the key campaigners in other countries, who have already walked this road, and are likely to have a ++better idea of where the bodies are buried. All best, James.

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topic for tonights meeting: companies supporting IFSO (Business Freedom)
by Ciaran O'Riordan 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

(meeting tonight, 2000h, Benshaws pub, the usual http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/images/benshaws.png) It seems that it would be useful for IFSO to create a listing of companies that support our work. I don't mean "companies that support Free Software". I mean "companies that support our actions, for whatever reason". So I suggest we draw up a set of principles for IFSO. I'm not suggesting we add this to the charter, but it could be a useful working group or project. This requires that we draw up a set of principles that benefit Free Software as well as the software industry in general. I am not willing to compromise the former for the latter, but I don't think it's necessary to do so anyway. Off the top of my head: 1. Monopolys should not be supported by law 2. Open standards should guide public administration 3. The law should not block competition in software 4. Software should not block acts permitted by law 5. The law should not prevent a software package being released as Free Software 6. The development of useful software shall not be illegal 7. etc. (1=no patents, 2=no proprietary file formats, 3=no DRM/prevention of interoperability, 4=fair dealing, 5=no "Trusted Computing", etc.) (Of course, this all needs to be reworded etc. and a preamble should be written to explain the need for competition, interoperability, etc.) I propose gathering a list of companies (using the list of directories James Heald posted yesterday as a starting point). We could then contact these companies and see how many we can get to sign up to our "Business Freedom" project (or whatever it's called). I'll probably start making the list of companies tomorrow, but first I wanted to discuss it on the list and at the meeting. So, what do people think? -- Ciaran O'Riordan - http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/

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EUCD
by John Evans 10 Dec '03

10 Dec '03

Hi On http://www.gnu.org/links/links.html#FreedomOrganizations There is a link to http://www.openrevolt.org "This site is devoted to providing information about the European Copyright Directive and similar legislation. This site concentrates on the two principal problems of the EUCD from a computer user's perspective: the ``Takedown'' Clause, which makes it easier for copyright holders to censor webpages on ISPs, and the Anti-Circumvention Clauses, which give legal protection to copy-protection measures, and in the process compromise public policy goals in copyright itself, human rights, competition policy and hinder academic research." Any use? Best Wishes John Evans

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10 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi folks -- I've got in touch with an Irish copyright lawyer I know. He says he'd be happy to help out -- preferably on the order of answering questions etc. If anyone has any questions/suggestions for him, let me know and I'll pass 'em on... - --j. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh CVS iD8DBQE/1NCMQTcbUG5Y7woRAr6XAJ496jr68ZUpbQYTmUrIYMJMh8QZNQCgsBuc +ndzGYoh4f5+0OUaSyoMy14= =G2uy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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xmas fsfe-ie pints? 23rd December
by Ciaran O'Riordan 10 Dec '03

10 Dec '03

yeh. Who's up for a pint on the 23rd? Ian Clarke will be in Ireland for a few days around xmas, and the 23rd is free, so how about a mini-meeting? Probably at 6 or 7, probably in Benshaws. (pubs will might be packed with post-shopping people, but benshaws is a little bit away from the shops, so it mightn't be as packed. If anyone has a better suggestion...) anyway, the next meeing is this thursday (11th), 2000h, benshaws. -- Ciaran O'Riordan - http://www.compsoc.com/~coriordan/

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Re: [Fsfe-uk] Re: Patented videoshop opens in Wales
by Robert Dewar 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

> I'm pretty sure that there exists no law forcing the holder of a patent to allow others to use it. There are no such laws. Though the government has in some cases forced the licensing of patents, e.g. some of the intergovernment deals on AIDS drugs, and earlier the Wright patents for military aviation in world war I. > And even if there was such a law, it's still the decision of the patent holders, what price they demand. They can exclude everyone by adjusting the price. And there's no reason why they shouldn't define different prices depending on who wants to use the patent... Differential pricing is tricky, any such scheme can easily run afoul of anti-trust laws. So the claim of "no reason" here is dubious.

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FSFE-IE December 2003