Dear Sir or Madam,
on your website you claim that you are the "French speaking Libre Software Users' Association" and therefore, support the usage and adoption of Free Software.
Today I received an identi.ca notice with a link to your "My University offers me my Microsoft Windows ® license" Worldwide Campaign [1]. On the campaign's website you encourage students to download Microsoft Windows through MSDNAA and to return the OEM versions of Microsoft Windows which the students own. You claim that this will send "send a strong signal to computer manufacturers" and also suggest to install GNU/Linux on the same computer.
Returning OEM versions of Microsoft Windows may convince hardware manufacturers to offer computers without Microsoft Windows, but encouraging students in the same breath to install a gratis copy of the same proprietary operating system won't support Free Software at all.
Following Richard Stallman tabaco analogy [2], this means that you ask students to return their tabaco to the shop in order to force the shop to not offering tabaco and on the other to get free tabaco samples from the tabaco company. This will of course not solve the problems of smoking.
I think the title of your organisation is dishonest, because you violate your own statutes. I suggest to either change your title and statutes or to stop your campaign and to apologise to your members.
If you really want to convince hardware manufacturers to offer computers without an operating system or with a pre-installed free operating system, I suggest to support the Windows Tax Refund initiative [3] of the Free Software Foundation Europe.
Sincerely, Matthias-Christian Ott
[1] http://www.racketware.info/msdnaa/call-on-students [2] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/schools.html [3] https://wiki.fsfe.org/WindowsTaxRefund
Dear Rui, Dear Matthias-Christian,
We understand your first reaction when reading the page for the students http://www.racketware.info/msdnaa/call-on-students However, you may have noticed a link towards a page for the free software community http://www.racketware.info/msdnaa/for-free-libre-open-source-software-commun...
There, you will read this:
---- 8< ---- Recently, in France, new labels have appeared in the hardware department of some stores. They advertise a possibility to obtain a refund for Windows ® from the manufacturer. That is probably mainly due to all these actions.
However, it is still substantially unsufficient: the licence price is not displayed alongside the machine.
Neverheless, this refund possibility, today for only some manufacturers, is irreversible: any step back on their side would shed too much light on bundled sale issues. We intend to take advantage of this irreversible evolution to exert a new type of pressure on the manufacturers. ---- >8 ----
Moreover, this campaign is aimed at those students who intended to use Windows anyway, whom we do not reach very easily. Through this campaign, those students will discover that they usually pay for Windows, that they can get a refund for it, that they can even install an additional OS.
Not to mention that this campaign will put an enormous pressure on the refund circuit.
I hope this answers most of your questions. Should you have more questions, please contact us again directly at contact@racketiciel.info This email address is read directly by people behind this campaign.
Sincerely,
Hello Laurent,
The only question that was answered was that it was not a hack.
As it is, I must reinforce my disagreement with advising people to buy proprietary software.
You will not reach those students with this campaign, anyways, so you might as well call it a day and a bad decision and cut it.
I'm sure that by Monday you will feel the egg on your face, even if you currently don't.
I'm certainly most disappointed.
If the only objective was "to destroy Microsoft's stronghold" on the computer market, it would be one thing, but the objective is to free computer users (nowadays, most humans).
You don't convince drug addicts to quit by advising them to buy from the big boss as a means to free them from resellers downstream.
I will remove the link to racketciel from nao.quero.imposto.ms while this campaign is on.
Rui
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:15:16AM +0200, Laurent Séguin wrote:
Dear Rui, Dear Matthias-Christian,
We understand your first reaction when reading the page for the students http://www.racketware.info/msdnaa/call-on-students However, you may have noticed a link towards a page for the free software community http://www.racketware.info/msdnaa/for-free-libre-open-source-software-commun...
There, you will read this:
---- 8< ---- Recently, in France, new labels have appeared in the hardware department of some stores. They advertise a possibility to obtain a refund for Windows ® from the manufacturer. That is probably mainly due to all these actions.
However, it is still substantially unsufficient: the licence price is not displayed alongside the machine.
Neverheless, this refund possibility, today for only some manufacturers, is irreversible: any step back on their side would shed too much light on bundled sale issues. We intend to take advantage of this irreversible evolution to exert a new type of pressure on the manufacturers. ---- >8 ----
Moreover, this campaign is aimed at those students who intended to use Windows anyway, whom we do not reach very easily. Through this campaign, those students will discover that they usually pay for Windows, that they can get a refund for it, that they can even install an additional OS.
Not to mention that this campaign will put an enormous pressure on the refund circuit.
I hope this answers most of your questions. Should you have more questions, please contact us again directly at contact@racketiciel.info This email address is read directly by people behind this campaign.
Sincerely,
Laurent Séguin, Vice-Président de l'AFUL -= Association Francophone des Utilisateurs de Logiciels Libres =- *Promouvoir les logiciels libres et les standards ouverts* http://www.aful.org/
--
Hello Rui Miguel,
Le 27/09/2009 03:38, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra a écrit :
Hello Laurent,
The only question that was answered was that it was not a hack.
As it is, I must reinforce my disagreement with advising people to buy proprietary software.
Well, we are afraid that it is a misunderstanding. Our campaign is by no way an advice to buy a proprietary software. We advise some eligible people that have _already_ choosen to do so to get a refund for it.
If the only objective was "to destroy Microsoft's stronghold" on the computer market, it would be one thing, but the objective is to free computer users (nowadays, most humans).
We don't have that goal "to destroy Microsoft's stronghold". Our conception of a freedom is not to restrict the people to some kind of software: proprietary or free. We would like that they have a choice of their OS. The first step for this freedom is to be able not to pay for preinstalled software. Our campaign is just one step in this direction. After that goal achieved, our arguments in the favour of free software will have a much larger audience.
That's why we don't have any "egg on our face" and we think that we are doing a good thing.
You don't convince drug addicts to quit by advising them to buy from the big boss as a means to free them from resellers downstream.
Your comparison of software to a drug is just showing how afraid and panicked you are of the proprietary soft. We are not. We are just believing that in fair competition the free software can give to the final user much more and so win more or less easily. That's why we are struggling for restoring these fair competition conditions.
I will remove the link to racketciel from nao.quero.imposto.ms while this campaign is on.
Well, you do as you and the members of your association wish to so. We'll see how people take this campaign in the next few weeks.
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:01:55PM +0200, Serguei Sokol wrote:
That's why we don't have any "egg on our face" and we think that we are doing a good thing.
(...)
I will remove the link to racketciel from nao.quero.imposto.ms >
while this campaign is on.
Well, you do as you and the members of your association wish to so. We'll see how people take this campaign in the next few weeks.
If some Free Software advocates take it as they're taking it already, then you better be prepared for an austrich egg flying towards you at the speed of light.
You don't convince drug addicts to quit by advising them to buy from the big boss as a means to free them from resellers downstream.
Your comparison of software to a drug is just showing how afraid and panicked you are of the proprietary soft. We are not. We are just believing that in fair competition the free software can give to the final user much more and so win more or less easily. That's why we are struggling for restoring these fair competition conditions.
This is a standard analogy, and repelling it as you do further makes me wonder what's happening at AFUL.
Here's another wholly applicable analogy for this campaign:
Shooting your own foot.
Rui
Hello,
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra a écrit Le 27/09/2009 14:52 :
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:01:55PM +0200, Serguei Sokol wrote:
I will remove the link to racketciel from nao.quero.imposto.ms >
while this campaign is on.
Well, you do as you and the members of your association wish to so. We'll see how people take this campaign in the next few weeks.
If some Free Software advocates take it as they're taking it already, then you better be prepared for an austrich egg flying towards you at the speed of light.
When you do something, remember that you will have against you those wanted to do the same thing, those who wanted to do the opposite, and all the many people who would do nothing. -- Confucius
You don't convince drug addicts to quit by advising them to buy from the big boss as a means to free them from resellers downstream.
Your comparison of software to a drug is just showing how afraid and panicked you are of the proprietary soft. We are not. We are just believing that in fair competition the free software can give to the final user much more and so win more or less easily. That's why we are struggling for restoring these fair competition conditions.
This is a standard analogy, and repelling it as you do further makes me wonder what's happening at AFUL.
If you want to help us to improve the communication of this campaign, whose objectives one of beyond to make a pressure on the refund system, is to change the mode of thought of students (who are not sensitive to our message on the FLOSS) about the OEM Windows license on all new computers, your are very welcome. You have just to send your proposals to contact@racketiciel.info
Regards,
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 03:35:46PM +0200, Laurent Séguin wrote:
If you want to help us to improve the communication of this campaign, whose objectives one of beyond to make a pressure on the refund system, is to change the mode of thought of students (who are not sensitive to our message on the FLOSS) about the OEM Windows license on all new computers, your are very welcome. You have just to send your proposals to contact@racketiciel.info
Here is the proposal: cancel it at once.
It fails to communicate anything useful at all.
I see your irreductible defense of the current campaign as a sign that you are not to be trusted at all, and from now on I will not look at racketciel the same way so soon.
Rui
Matthias, Rui,
I know AFUL from the past as an organistation that honestly fights for software freedom. So far I have not read up about the details of the campaign in question, so I do not have an opinion on it - yet. They might be misslead or not. I do have an opinion on the style of communication, though:
Am Samstag, 26. September 2009 21:35:53 schrieb Matthias-Christian Ott:
I think the title of your organisation is dishonest, because you violate your own statutes. I suggest to either change your title and statutes or to stop your campaign and to apologise to your members.
Am Sonntag, 27. September 2009 14:52:09 schrieb Rui Miguel Silva Seabra:
If some Free Software advocates take it as they're taking it already, then you better be prepared for an austrich egg flying towards you at the speed of light.
Please retain some respect in communications. Even if you are angry and strongly disagree with the campaign, it is not helpful to be aggressive like this. You should better make a clear argument and explain why you believe it is a bad idea - so that others like me can understand it faster and then can help others to understand it better.
Regards, Bernhard ps.: Please keep fsfe-de@ out of the recipient lists for the topic until there is a very good reason. It is a German speaking list and while it is okay to occasionally post something relevant there, I do not think this full discussion belongs there.