ke, 2011-01-19 kello 11:00 +0100, Matthias Kirschner kirjoitti:
Hi Otto,
- Otto Kekäläinen otto@fsfe.org [2011-01-18 21:05:18 +0200]:
And one more thing... is there any update on lower Fellowship fees? We would really need that to gain more Fellows in Finland.
We will first try it out with the monhtly payments (5 EUR a month is not so much as 60 EUR a year). Reinhard (in CC) is working on that. The problem is, that we cannot lower it without a financial bufffer, as it might happen that Fellows lower their fee and we will not be able to balance that with new Fellows.
As you might remember from our discussions at FSCONS, this issue is vital to me. The current fee (and to some degree the unfriendly Fellowship join form) stop 99% of the potential Finnish Fellows from joining (based on my experience so far). I'm ready to do a big push for FOSS-issues in Finland now when the elections are just a few months away and I'm willing to do it as a FSFE representative, thus gaining lots and lots of visibility and moral support for us.
I feel that some of my effort is wasted if I don't harness the visibility to get some of the FOSS-population to join and monetary fund some organisation that fights for the cause.
Do you think that as a compromise, the Finnish translation of the near-future version of the join page could advertise a lower fee than in other languages?
That could also serve as an interesting study on the matter of Fellowship fee elasticity, as the economic term goes, without risking anything European wide..
I know this matter is not easy, but I want to bring it up again, so that you know that it is very important to me.
Hi Otto,
* Otto Kekäläinen otto@fsfe.org [2011-01-19 22:47:59 +0200]:
And one more thing... is there any update on lower Fellowship fees? We would really need that to gain more Fellows in Finland.
We will first try it out with the monhtly payments (5 EUR a month is not so much as 60 EUR a year). Reinhard (in CC) is working on that. The problem is, that we cannot lower it without a financial bufffer, as it might happen that Fellows lower their fee and we will not be able to balance that with new Fellows.
As you might remember from our discussions at FSCONS, this issue is vital to me. The current fee (and to some degree the unfriendly Fellowship join form) stop 99% of the potential Finnish Fellows from joining (based on my experience so far).
I am very sure that the current fee is not the biggest problem. And as I described we cannot take the risk to change the fee at the moment. This might be something for next year when we are able to get a good financial buffer. Until than I would like to concentrate on the other issues.
For me there are the following big problems: - Fellows drop out because they have to transfer money and not us initialising the payment. - Fellows not joining because it is easier to pay monthly than yearly - Fellows not joining because it is difficult to join the Fellowship when you saw something you liked on fsfe.org.
(1) and (2) will be solved as soon as we switch to the other payment provider. We will than have several payment options, and the possiblity to pay monthly. Reinhard expects the basics to be ready by March, than our sysadmins have to implement it.
For (3) I would be very thankful if you can help me. I agree that the current join formular has to be improved. We also need a better user experience from reading something interesting on www.fsfe.org/ to joining the Fellowship.
I already talked about that with Nico, Reinhard and Karsten and will send proposals to web@ and CC you. Please help me with that. We can already work on several things for (3).
I'm ready to do a big push for FOSS-issues in Finland now when the elections are just a few months away and I'm willing to do it as a FSFE representative, thus gaining lots and lots of visibility and moral support for us.
This is very good! The new features (like country team page, news and event tagging, etc.) on our website will support this quite well.
I feel that some of my effort is wasted if I don't harness the visibility to get some of the FOSS-population to join and monetary fund some organisation that fights for the cause.
Yes, definetely.
Do you think that as a compromise, the Finnish translation of the near-future version of the join page could advertise a lower fee than in other languages?
That could also serve as an interesting study on the matter of Fellowship fee elasticity, as the economic term goes, without risking anything European wide..
I know this matter is not easy, but I want to bring it up again, so that you know that it is very important to me.
I am not sure about that. It will look strange, if you have to pay less in Finland than in other countries like Poland, Rumania, etc. But if a lot of others think this is a good idea I might change my view.
There is the argument that people who cannot pay 5 EUR a month should not support us with money, but contribute by other means: http://www.fsfe.org/contribute/contribute.en.html
When we want to do a test in Finnland we would have to wait with monthly payments and with improving the website to get a result for the fellowship fee. I don't want to wait with those changes. Also changing the fee for Finland only might be more complex than chaning the other things. So I would first test the monhtly payment, and improved websites and than we could for example write to the Fellows and ask them what they would do if we lower the contribution and explain them the problem we would have if they all go down with their contribution.
So would you be able to help with improving the join process (from reading something on www.fsfe.org until the notice that you have paid)? And afterwards we start with the more risky task of changing the minimum amount?
Regards, Matthias
Hi,
pe, 2011-01-21 kello 14:26 +0100, Matthias Kirschner kirjoitti:
For me there are the following big problems:
- Fellows drop out because they have to transfer money and not us initialising the payment.
- Fellows not joining because it is easier to pay monthly than yearly
- Fellows not joining because it is difficult to join the Fellowship when you saw something you liked on fsfe.org.
(1) and (2) will be solved as soon as we switch to the other payment provider. We will than have several payment options, and the possiblity to pay monthly. Reinhard expects the basics to be ready by March, than our sysadmins have to implement it.
For (3) I would be very thankful if you can help me. I agree that the current join formular has to be improved. We also need a better user experience from reading something interesting on www.fsfe.org/ to joining the Fellowship.
I already talked about that with Nico, Reinhard and Karsten and will send proposals to web@ and CC you. Please help me with that. We can already work on several things for (3).
Ok, I'll focus on improving the join process (3). I've sent you ages ago structured feedback about the https://fellowship.fsfe.org/login/join.php, but I could do better by actually building a prototype of a new version.
I'll try to brainstorm and prototype around the join form (and process) together with other Fellows here in Finland next time we meet.
(In case you want to review my old yet still valid feedback, search your mail archive from the end of 2009 with subject "Re: Fellowship join process")
Hi Otto,
* Otto Kekäläinen otto@fsfe.org [2011-02-02 13:45:51 +0200]:
Ok, I'll focus on improving the join process (3). I've sent you ages ago structured feedback about the https://fellowship.fsfe.org/login/join.php, but I could do better by actually building a prototype of a new version.
I'll try to brainstorm and prototype around the join form (and process) together with other Fellows here in Finland next time we meet.
I had a discussion with Martin this morning. The idea is that when you join the Fellowship you first just have to prive: - Name - e-mail - payment details.
After the payment is registered you fill out all the other details. This way we make it very easy to join, and than we can offer them all the other things like: - Adress for Fellowship card - Contact with group organisers - ...
Should we have a brief chat about that, before you start with some proposals?
Thanks, Matthias
ma, 2011-02-07 kello 13:45 +0100, Matthias Kirschner kirjoitti:
I had a discussion with Martin this morning. The idea is that when you join the Fellowship you first just have to prive:
- Name
- payment details.
After the payment is registered you fill out all the other details. This way we make it very easy to join, and than we can offer them all the other things like:
Good idea!
Just proceed with it, I'll make my proposals based on whatever is the status at that time - and I don't know now when I'll have time to make a proposal anyway.
hi Otto,
* Otto Kekäläinen otto@fsfe.org [2011-02-07 17:02:55 +0200]:
Just proceed with it, I'll make my proposals based on whatever is the status at that time - and I don't know now when I'll have time to make a proposal anyway.
Ok.
Thanks, Matthias