Dear List Member,
Werner Heuser author of Linux on the Road ( A Guide for Laptops and PDAs) has been charged with trademark issues by the owner of the trademarks for Asterix and Obelix "Les Editions Albert Rene" (Paris). The name of his website MobiliX.org is supposed to be mistaken for Obelix.
The trademark Obelix was registered by the German lawyer Guenter Freiherr v. Gravenreuth. The legal charge is up to 250.000 USD or six months prison. The costs of the first instance are app. 15.000 USD. Werner Heuser has decided not to withdraw the name "MobiliX". He is supported by the German lawyers Jaschinski, Biere und Brexl - JBB (http://www.jbb-berlin.de).
This case is another one in the recent series of trademark troubles for Free Software projects (SAMBA, Kylix, Kilustrator, SELFHTML, SuSE, ..). Therefore this case seems to be very important not only because many of these projects have names ending on "iX".
The MobiliX.org (http://mobilix.org) site is dedicated to Mobile UniX systems. Therefore its name is a combination of the word "mobile" and the suffix "iX". It leads you to a lot of useful hands-on information about installing and running Linux, BSD, Solaris and other UniXes on laptops, PDAs, cell phones and other mobile computer devices. It exists since five years and besides the famous site "Linux on Laptops" (http://www.linux-laptop.net) by Kenneth E. Harker it seems to be biggest resource on this topic.
Current news about the case are at http://mobilix.org/mobilix_asterix.html
Werner Heuser
On Qua, 2002-01-09 at 12:25, Werner Heuser wrote:
Werner Heuser author of Linux on the Road ( A Guide for Laptops and PDAs) has been charged with trademark issues by the owner of the trademarks for Asterix and Obelix "Les Editions Albert Rene" (Paris). The name of his website MobiliX.org is supposed to be mistaken for Obelix.
There's something I don't understand here. When you register a trademark you're supposed to define classes of products and/or services for your trademark. The classification used in Europe is in http://classifications.wipo.int/fulltext/nice8/enmain.htm.
Do you know what class(es) they have registered ?
One protective measure you could take would be to register "MobiliX" as a trademark in class 41 or 42 (those seem to me to be the better ones). If your name was a trademark it would mean that the trademark office has found that there are no conflicts with existing trademarks, so it could also help a court case.
Obviously this should be discussed with your lawyer (IANAL).
Good luck,
On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 04:49:09PM +0000, João Miguel Neves wrote:
On Qua, 2002-01-09 at 12:25, Werner Heuser wrote: There's something I don't understand here. When you register a trademark you're supposed to define classes of products and/or services for your trademark. The classification used in Europe is in http://classifications.wipo.int/fulltext/nice8/enmain.htm. Do you know what class(es) they have registered ?
Both have class 9. There is a german link about it: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/hob-08.01.02-000/
Eike
Hi ...
On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 06:10:33PM +0100, Eike Lange wrote:
On Qua, 2002-01-09 at 12:25, Werner Heuser wrote: There's something I don't understand here. When you register a trademark you're supposed to define classes of products and/or services for your trademark. The classification used in Europe is in http://classifications.wipo.int/fulltext/nice8/enmain.htm. Do you know what class(es) they have registered ?
Both have class 9. There is a german link about it: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/hob-08.01.02-000/
What about all free projects with names, which are similar to names from commercial names? I think it is more possible to get into trouble with people like Gravenreuth every day those poeple could do their work. Are there people, where you can go, if you have some problem with that, maybe the fsf?
Best Regards
Jan
|| On Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:24:16 +0100 || Jan-Hendrik Palic palic@billgotchy.de wrote:
jp> What about all free projects with names, which are similar to jp> names from commercial names? I think it is more possible to get jp> into trouble with people like Gravenreuth every day those poeple jp> could do their work.
Yes, it is obvious that the Free Software movement has not paid enough attention to this.
jp> Are there people, where you can go, if you have some problem with jp> that, maybe the fsf?
The FSF Europe already tries to do what it can. In fact we got in contact with Werner Heuser of MobiliX immediately when we heard about this and it is not really circumstantial that Till Jaeger (the lawyer of Werner Heuser) is also the lawyer of the FSF Europe. If you read the Heise article, you will even find that we are being mentioned there.
In the earlier case that created a lot of fuzz, the case of Killustrator, we also had Till Jaeger investigate the matter. He was ready to defend the Killustrator project - and would most likely have won. Unfortunately the author of Killustrator and the University he published it from preferred to settle the matter by changing the name.
Regards, Georg
Hi Goerg, hi list....
On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 10:18:57PM +0100, Georg C. F. Greve wrote:
jp> What about all free projects with names, which are similar to jp> names from commercial names? I think it is more possible to get jp> into trouble with people like Gravenreuth every day those poeple jp> could do their work. Yes, it is obvious that the Free Software movement has not paid enough attention to this.
I think, nobody did and will do, except the people of the Free Software movement. I had many discussions about free software and there
What I'm interested for is to know, whether there are similar people in other states, can someone say something about that?
jp> Are there people, where you can go, if you have some problem with jp> that, maybe the fsf? The FSF Europe already tries to do what it can. In fact we got in contact with Werner Heuser of MobiliX immediately when we heard about this and it is not really circumstantial that Till Jaeger (the lawyer of Werner Heuser) is also the lawyer of the FSF Europe. If you read the Heise article, you will even find that we are being mentioned there.
Ok .. sorry .. I missed to read Heise a long time, but it is good to know :)
best regards
Jan
...
One protective measure you could take would be to register "MobiliX" as a trademark in class 41 or 42 (those seem to me to be the better ones). If your name was a trademark it would mean that the trademark office has found that there are no conflicts with existing trademarks, so it could also help a court case.
Obviously this should be discussed with your lawyer (IANAL).
Hi,
thank you very much for your report. The legal situation is more complicated than you write, because there are exceptions for famous trademarks. My lawyers are specialized on this topic and we have discussed this, it doesn't help.
Werner
Am Mittwoch, 9. Januar 2002 13:25 schrieb Werner Heuser:
Dear List Member,
Werner Heuser author of Linux on the Road ( A Guide for Laptops and PDAs) has been charged with trademark issues by the owner of the trademarks for Asterix and Obelix "Les Editions Albert Rene" (Paris). The name of his website MobiliX.org is supposed to be mistaken for Obelix.
The trademark Obelix was registered by the German lawyer Guenter Freiherr v. Gravenreuth. The legal charge is up to 250.000 USD or six months prison. The costs of the first instance are app. 15.000 USD. Werner Heuser has decided not to withdraw the name "MobiliX". He is supported by the German lawyers Jaschinski, Biere und Brexl - JBB (http://www.jbb-berlin.de).
Hi List There is also an issue like this running against SuSE by this "Freiherr". You can read about at http://heise.de/newsticker/data/odi-07.01.02-000/ (german). This "Lawyer" tells that SuSE is hurting the Rights of www.crayon.de by setting a Link to the Program Krayon in the KOfiice-Menu of their Distribution. I've tried to reach the www.crayon.de Company under their Telephone-Number: (+49) 431 / 24 12 47 . But without any Success.
I think it is highly recommended to stop this "Lawyer" at his Methode of "making millions, while doing nothing". He seems to be Online 'round the clock' on the Heise-Forum, so I think he has nothing else to do.
It is time to so something, to change laws in a way, that this kind of people cannot have success as a "Wegelagerer" (sorry don't know the english word). It is time to start a campaign. CU Thorsten
Thorsten Körner wrote:
It is time to so something, to change laws in a way, that this kind of people cannot have success as a "Wegelagerer" (sorry don't know the english word).
dumbass? :-) [sorry... couldn't resist]
It is time to start a campaign.
I'm afraid it will be harder than that, and harder and harder.
--andrew
hi there!
I really don't understand why someone tries this hard to stop the development of the Open-Source movement and other on-line groups. When visting gravenreuth.de I took a brief look at his 'hall of fame': he really should re-think his motivation (justice or money?).. I also think that Mr. Gravenreuth should ASAP REMOVE those Anti-Microsoft jokes from his web site.. Otherwise nobody would like him any more :-( , as I guess that those who dislike M$-Politics, too feel really .... at by his work!
sincerly, F. Lindenberg
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:37:38 +0100, Friedrich Lindenberg said:
I really don't understand why someone tries this hard to stop the development of the Open-Source movement and other on-line groups.
Aside from the fact the FvG probably gets some good revenue from his special methods, he also gets a lot of public relation for free. Given that lawyers are not allowed to advertise in Germany, this is a nice side effect.
To protect yourself from his expensive "letters" you can hire him as a lawyer. I know a company in my home town which exactly did this.
The abuse of the trademark system is really worrisome but for now it is more important to fight against patents. It won't help us to succeed in getting the trademark system back to for what it was established if we are all out of business/funwork due to changes in the patent system.
Ciao,
Werner
On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 07:37:38PM +0100, Friedrich Lindenberg wrote:
I really don't understand why someone tries this hard to stop the development
It has to be noted that the legal mechanisms of trademark law are indeed meant to protect the consumer. There are areas where this actually works. Think about a product in the store where the producer tries to make you lure into buying it, because it looks like a known brand.
Free Software and the Internet however create new situations for the practical handling of trademark violations. Indiviuals who test the limits of the legal procedures also show that revisions of these procedures should be considered.
As with software patents the legal gun seems to be on the side of the bigger players without much risk in actually fireing it.
Bernhard
Am Mittwoch, 9. Januar 2002 19:37 schrieb Friedrich Lindenberg:
hi there!
I really don't understand why someone tries this hard to stop the development of the Open-Source movement and other on-line groups. When visting gravenreuth.de I took a brief look at his 'hall of fame': he really should re-think his motivation (justice or money?).
MONEY no doubt !!! CU Thorsten
Thorsten Körner thorstenkoerner@thorsti.org writes:
I really don't understand why someone tries this hard to stop the development of the Open-Source movement and other on-line groups. When visting gravenreuth.de I took a brief look at his 'hall of fame': he really should re-think his motivation (justice or money?).
MONEY no doubt !!!
I think he loves his work. I would probably, too, I think it's real fun to be creative in this way (but of course I prefer I direct my creativity to other areas).
"Friedrich Lindenberg" frlind@gmx.net writes:
I really don't understand why someone tries this hard to stop the development of the Open-Source movement and other on-line groups.
You have enforce trademarks, otherwise they become diluted and worthless.
Actually, this is a good aspect of trademark law: In theory, it is not possible to delay enforcing the trademark until a substantial amount of technology has been deployed. With patents, there is no such requirement, and as a result, we regularly see delayed enforcing of patents.
Of course, skilled people can try to push the limits of the legal system, for whatever reason they choose.
...
There is also an issue like this running against SuSE by this "Freiherr". You can read about at http://heise.de/newsticker/data/odi-07.01.02-000/ (german).
Please note the lawyer Guenter Freiherr von Gravenreuth has registered the trademark Obelix. He has done so for "Les Editions Albert Rene" the owner of the trademark. The current charge against MobiliX is not done by him.
Werner