Hi everyone,
we are currently preparing a major update to PDFReaders.org, adding:
* a more appealing and cleaner "home"-page, with *one recommendation* for the auto-detected platform * Free pdf reader recommendations for mobile platforms * Free pdf browser plugin recommendations
BUT, we need some help with gathering/verifying information, deciding what to recommend... Please have a look at the current Reader-Overview [1] and the TODOs there.
Tell us...
* if you know any other Free pdf readers that we haven't listed, yet (for any platform, but especially OSX and iOS) * which Android reader you would recommend * any other ideas you might have!
You can reach us via mail[2] or comment directly in the blog [3]. If you have an account at the fellowship-wiki[4] you can commit changes to the overview directly.
Thanks for your help!
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Hi everyone,
On 05/21/2012 04:37 PM, Hannes Hauswedell wrote:
we are currently preparing a major update to PDFReaders.org, adding:
- a more appealing and cleaner "home"-page, with *one
recommendation* for the auto-detected platform
do you really think that is a good idea to have just one recommendation for the auto-detected platform? I see some problems in this practice, as it could be understood as an advertisement. I mean, imagine you are an administrator of some ministry and then you receive a mail from FSFE that you are actively doing advertisement for an American company named Adobe Systems and that you should replace this with a link to pdfreaders.org. Then you go there and you see an advertisement for another program ... I think I would maybe delete the link to Adobe but not link to another advertisement. A platform however, that gives you the opportunity to choose a pdfreader on your own seems neutral and will maybe receive more support.
- Free pdf reader recommendations for mobile platforms * Free pdf
browser plugin recommendations
BUT, we need some help with gathering/verifying information, deciding what to recommend... Please have a look at the current Reader-Overview [1] and the TODOs there.
Again, I also think you save yourself a lot of work, if you do not recommend a single solution :) And even if you come to the point that there is a common sense which program should be recommended, someone has to keep track of this. I mean, in just half a year every program can be changed in total. Then you need new discussions and decisions about changed programs and so on ...
Just my 2 cents, Erik
- --
Erik Albers [ ] Free Software Foundation Europe [ ][ ][ ] Policy Team [ ] Your donation powers our work! [http://fsfe.org/donate/]
Contact me in < Deutsch/English/Español > via: Mail eal@fsfe.org Jabber eal@jabber.fsfe.org Phone +49-30-27595290
Free Software Foundation Europe e.V. is a German Verein registered at the Registergericht Hamburg (VR 17030).
On 22.05.2012 18:10, Erik Albers wrote:
Hi everyone,
On 05/21/2012 04:37 PM, Hannes Hauswedell wrote:
we are currently preparing a major update to PDFReaders.org, adding:
- a more appealing and cleaner "home"-page, with *one
recommendation* for the auto-detected platform
do you really think that is a good idea to have just one recommendation for the auto-detected platform?
Please join us on the pdf-readers list to discuss this, as we will lose track of different discussions else!
Thank you!
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org
On 22.05.2012 18:10, Erik Albers wrote:
- a more appealing and cleaner "home"-page, with *one
recommendation* for the auto-detected platform
do you really think that is a good idea to have just one recommendation for the auto-detected platform?
Please join us on the pdf-readers list to discuss this, as we will lose track of different discussions else!
Where do we find that? I guessed and tried https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/ and http://pdfreaders.org/about.en.html but it's not listed on either.
Thanks,
On 23.05.2012 00:02, MJ Ray wrote:
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org
On 22.05.2012 18:10, Erik Albers wrote:
- a more appealing and cleaner "home"-page, with *one
recommendation* for the auto-detected platform
do you really think that is a good idea to have just one recommendation for the auto-detected platform?
Please join us on the pdf-readers list to discuss this, as we will lose track of different discussions else!
Where do we find that? I guessed and tried https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/ and http://pdfreaders.org/about.en.html but it's not listed on either.
Thanks,
Sorry about that, the list is pdfreaders@lists.fsfe.… but you can just send to feedback(@)pdfreaders.org that redirects to our list and allows posting from non-members!
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org
Sorry about that, the list is pdfreaders@lists.fsfe.… but you can just send to feedback(@)pdfreaders.org that redirects to our list and allows posting from non-members!
OK, right, so as we can't actually join the discussion on the closed pdfreaders list and the blog evilly locks out visually-impaired users, can we just continue discussion on discussion@ please?
It works and I'd really welcome this being discussed openly. pdfreaders.org is a great site and really useful in helping people realise that the Microsoft/Adobe/... system is not the only one.
I would like to support Erik Albers's point that only offering a single recommendation on the homepage defeats the recent work asking people to stop the Adobe adverts;
- and also note that the viewing platform may not be the one we want a recommendation for.
On the substance of https://wiki.fsfe.org/PDFreaders/todo2012/Overview-Page
Vindaloo still works fine on GNU/Linux - the frontend may not have been updated since 2005, but the underlying Poppler library has, so the app's kept improving in use. It isn't currently listed for "Free Operating Systems" (why not?). I can't comment on OSX - I'd expect it to work there, but I don't know of current OSX binaries for it.
Is there a download site with an AlternateReader binary with a current certificate? 1.08(4) failed to install for me, giving an "Expired Certificate" error.
The site probably shouldn't recommend Evince or Okular to someone not using Gnome or KDE already, as it'll seem like a really big install.
Thanks for your work on this,
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Hi All,
MJ Ray wrote:
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org
Sorry about that, the list is pdfreaders@lists.fsfe.… but you can just send to feedback(@)pdfreaders.org that redirects to our list and allows posting from non-members!
OK, right, so as we can't actually join the discussion on the closed pdfreaders list and the blog evilly locks out visually-impaired users, can we just continue discussion on discussion@ please?
I would like to support Erik Albers's point that only offering a single recommendation on the homepage defeats the recent work asking people to stop the Adobe adverts;
I'm too concerned about recommending only one option per OS. This would cost the neutrality we are striving for (we want neutrality, don't we?).
I also would like to point out that there are some users who do not wish to browse through a possibly long list of potential alternatives and then choose one. There are some people out there who just want to use a software that works (free software would be nice to have, of course).
Perhaps we could leave the list like it is and add a (rather tiny) link to a recommendation. This way lazy users can just take that one.
Regards,
Phil
On 23.05.2012 01:20, MJ Ray wrote:
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org
Sorry about that, the list is pdfreaders@lists.fsfe.… but you can just send to feedback(@)pdfreaders.org that redirects to our list and allows posting from non-members!
OK, right, so as we can't actually join the discussion on the closed pdfreaders list and the blog evilly locks out visually-impaired users, can we just continue discussion on discussion@ please?
No. This leads to many duplicate discussions, resulting in a lot of frustration and wasted time on all sides[1] -- as this situation already shows. If you want to discuss the future of pdfreaders in depth, you are very welcome to join the pdfreaders list, please contact mk@fsfe! If you do not want to do this, you can still write suggestions to feedback@pdfreaders or edit the wiki directly, (e.g. adding Vindaloo to GNU/Linux section). I will look into the blog's captcha, although I tried posting multiple comments (even spam-like), and I was never asked for one.
Is there a reason for this list not being advertised anywhere? Even on the listman pages?
Perhaps there'd be more people interested in the discussion? But like others in this conversation, we didn't even know the list existed..
(Sorry to anyone who receives this twice..)
On 23 May 2012 12:29, Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org wrote:
On 23.05.2012 01:20, MJ Ray wrote:
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org
Sorry about that, the list is pdfreaders@lists.fsfe.… but you can just send to feedback(@)pdfreaders.org that redirects to our list and allows posting from non-members!
OK, right, so as we can't actually join the discussion on the closed pdfreaders list and the blog evilly locks out visually-impaired users, can we just continue discussion on discussion@ please?
No. This leads to many duplicate discussions, resulting in a lot of frustration and wasted time on all sides[1] -- as this situation already shows. If you want to discuss the future of pdfreaders in depth, you are very welcome to join the pdfreaders list, please contact mk@fsfe! If you do not want to do this, you can still write suggestions to feedback@pdfreaders or edit the wiki directly, (e.g. adding Vindaloo to GNU/Linux section). I will look into the blog's captcha, although I tried posting multiple comments (even spam-like), and I was never asked for one.
-- ┌─────────────────────────────────────────┐ Best Regards, │ Free Software Foundation Europe █▉ │ Hannes Hauswedell │ German Team █▉█▉█▉ │ │ Coordinator for pdfreaders.org ▉▉ │ └─────────────────────────────────────────┘
[1] and third parties annoyed by double posting to multiple lists.
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
On 23 May 2012 11:40, Craig Errington ce@fsfe.org wrote:
Is there a reason for this list not being advertised anywhere? Even on the listman pages?
There is: This is not a discussion list, this is a list used to coordinate the campaign. I.e., if you want access, you should be prepared to work on the campaign, not just discuss matters.
Perhaps there'd be more people interested in the discussion? But like others in this conversation, we didn't even know the list existed..
There have been opportunities to discuss the project on this list. See the archives for Apr 17 and Jan 21. I do not mean it as a discussion killer, but I can certainly understand why Hannes does not want to try to keep track of several mailing lists.
Cheers,
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org
On 23.05.2012 01:20, MJ Ray wrote:
OK, right, so as we can't actually join the discussion on the closed pdfreaders list and the blog evilly locks out visually-impaired users, can we just continue discussion on discussion@ please?
No. This leads to many duplicate discussions, resulting in a lot of frustration and wasted time on all sides[1] -- as this situation already shows.
I had frustration and wasted time and had to double-post already, before there was any discussion. As it looks like one of us will have frustration and wasted time anyway, we might as well have it with discussion rather than without! ;-)
If you do not want to do this, you can still write suggestions to feedback@pdfreaders or edit the wiki directly, (e.g. adding Vindaloo to GNU/Linux section).
It looks like I would have to pay to edit the wiki, so please take the suggestions previously written.
I will look into the blog's captcha, although I tried posting multiple comments (even spam-like), and I was never asked for one.
I can't explain that. Maybe it likes you and not me... and if it's not querying spam-like comments, it doesn't sound like it is testing for spam at all!
I think Spam Karma 2 has been broken for many years (I've yet to see it work, at least) and is not fit for use. I suggest a combination of BlogSpam.net and wp-spamfree (in a non-javascript configuration) as better alternatives.
Hope that helps,
On Thursday 24 May 2012 18:45:38 MJ Ray wrote:
It looks like I would have to pay to edit the wiki
You don't. Please look here: http://wiki.fsfe.org/UserGuide#Guest_accounts
Regards, Torsten
Torsten Grote Torsten.Grote@fsfe.org
On Thursday 24 May 2012 18:45:38 MJ Ray wrote:
It looks like I would have to pay to edit the wiki
You don't. Please look here: http://wiki.fsfe.org/UserGuide#Guest_accounts
Oh! I suggest putting "Join as guest" on the top bar or a link to that from the "Join" page instead of just the money request form.
Someone must have helped me with this before because I tried and got "This email already belongs to somebody else" so now I have to email someone instead because I don't have it on file and can't guess it. Oh well!
Thanks anyway,
Here MJ Ray's suggestion to promote the guest accounts more on the Fellowship wiki. What do you think: would it be better to have an additional register guest account? Or should we have a "register", which leads to a seperated page where you can either Join the Fellowship or you can register a guest account for the wiki?
Regards, Matthias
* MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop [2012-05-24 18:37:10 +0100]:
Torsten Grote Torsten.Grote@fsfe.org
On Thursday 24 May 2012 18:45:38 MJ Ray wrote:
It looks like I would have to pay to edit the wiki
You don't. Please look here: http://wiki.fsfe.org/UserGuide#Guest_accounts
Oh! I suggest putting "Join as guest" on the top bar or a link to that from the "Join" page instead of just the money request form.
Someone must have helped me with this before because I tried and got "This email already belongs to somebody else" so now I have to email someone instead because I don't have it on file and can't guess it. Oh well!
Le mardi 22 mai 2012 à 18:20 +0100, MJ Ray a écrit :
OK, right, so as we can't actually join the discussion on the closed pdfreaders list
https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/pdfreaders
On 22 May 2012 16:02, MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org
On 22.05.2012 18:10, Erik Albers wrote:
- a more appealing and cleaner "home"-page, with *one
recommendation* for the auto-detected platform
do you really think that is a good idea to have just one recommendation for the auto-detected platform?
Please join us on the pdf-readers list to discuss this, as we will lose track of different discussions else!
Where do we find that? I guessed and tried https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/ and http://pdfreaders.org/about.en.html but it's not listed on either.
I suppose you will write to mk.
Cheers,
Hannes Hauswedell h2@fsfe.org writes:
- a more appealing and cleaner "home"-page, with *one recommendation* for the auto-detected platform
+1
The current long list of readers is very confusing.
(I also think that the name pdfreaders.org is bit misleading since it does not list the most popular pdf reader in the world but I guess renaming it to free-pdfreaders.org is already too late...)
Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindfors@iki.fi
(I also think that the name pdfreaders.org is bit misleading since it does not list the most popular pdf reader in the world but I guess renaming it to free-pdfreaders.org is already too late...)
I think you mean most common, not most popular... I've heard many of its users swearing about it! They were quite happy to discover alternatives... although it seems that some still use Acrobat to fill out non-standard forms sometimes.
Regards,