You missed the point entirely I guess.
How charitable.
if you use exclusively presentations to present arguments then you FAIL
Yes, the article does show beautifully show the narrow, linear thinking of the American military establishment, and how it is exemplified in their love affair with Powerpoint.
I liked the part especially about the huge amount of time that junior staff have to spend using the application in order to produce these endless presentations.
What a job - spending much of your week making meaningless proprietary presentations using Powerpoint (the frustration!) so that they can be shown to men who have probably already made up their minds about the subject in question. And after having chosen a 'military' career!
Sam.
On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 11:16 +0100, Sam Tuke wrote:
You missed the point entirely I guess.
How charitable.
if you use exclusively presentations to present arguments then you FAIL
Yes, the article does show beautifully show the narrow, linear thinking of the American military establishment, and how it is exemplified in their love affair with Powerpoint.
I liked the part especially about the huge amount of time that junior staff have to spend using the application in order to produce these endless presentations.
What a job - spending much of your week making meaningless proprietary presentations using Powerpoint (the frustration!) so that they can be shown to men who have probably already made up their minds about the subject in question. And after having chosen a 'military' career!
And this is in topic how ?
Simo.
Hi,
Le jeudi 29 avril 2010 à 07:37 -0400, simo a écrit :
And this is in topic how ?
This is an interesting article that shows how the proprietary software monoculture can have weird effects on some other monoculture, such as military culture :)
And, regarding American strategy in Afghanistan and Iraq, it might say that using wrong tools, no matter what you are trying to achieve and how good or bad your attention may be, is never a clever option.
I agree that is a bit out of topic, but yet it is interesting to discuss the effects of software (and Free Software) on social processes of building projects and achieving things (or the lack of achievement, in the case of US military :))
Best, Hugo
On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 13:57 +0200, Hugo Roy wrote:
Hi,
Le jeudi 29 avril 2010 à 07:37 -0400, simo a écrit :
And this is in topic how ?
This is an interesting article that shows how the proprietary software monoculture can have weird effects on some other monoculture, such as military culture :)
So if the article had said "OpenOffice.org Impress" it would have been totally different and shown how the Free Software monoculture can have weird effects on some other monoculture, such as military culture ?
Oh come on, this is just trolling...
I agree that is a bit out of topic, but yet it is interesting to discuss the effects of software (and Free Software) on social processes of building projects and achieving things (or the lack of achievement, in the case of US military :))
No, this is totally off topic, and free software would have made absolutely no difference in this case. You can't start off-topic discussions every time the word "powerpoint" (or any name of a proprietary program) appears somewhere ...
If you want to discuss military strategy I am sure there are many forums dedicated to the issue, this is not one of them.
Simo.
Le jeudi 29 avril 2010 à 08:26 -0400, simo a écrit :
On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 13:57 +0200, Hugo Roy wrote:
Hi,
Le jeudi 29 avril 2010 à 07:37 -0400, simo a écrit :
And this is in topic how ?
This is an interesting article that shows how the proprietary software monoculture can have weird effects on some other monoculture, such as military culture :)
So if the article had said "OpenOffice.org Impress" it would have been totally different and shown how the Free Software monoculture can have weird effects on some other monoculture, such as military culture ?
Oh come on, this is just trolling...
I guess you completely missed my point… if the article would have said "OpenOffice.org Impress" I would have just said: it is using the wrong tools (exactly like I said for Powerpoint in my previous email).
Here, the fact that it is proprietary software is an explanation of why they use the wrong tools → because they don't really have the choice (less choice resulting from proprietary software monoculture → everybody uses the same tools designed by the same people, here Microsoft).
Don't misunderstand me Using OpenOffice would have been almost as stupid as using Office. They are wrong tools for such things as establishing solid military strategy IMHO.
Finally, this is not offtopic. We are not discussing military strategy here, but discussing on how good Free Software is for giving us the right tools to achieve what we want.
Best, Hugo
On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 14:42 +0200, Hugo Roy wrote:
Le jeudi 29 avril 2010 à 08:26 -0400, simo a écrit :
On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 13:57 +0200, Hugo Roy wrote:
Hi,
Le jeudi 29 avril 2010 à 07:37 -0400, simo a écrit :
And this is in topic how ?
This is an interesting article that shows how the proprietary software monoculture can have weird effects on some other monoculture, such as military culture :)
So if the article had said "OpenOffice.org Impress" it would have been totally different and shown how the Free Software monoculture can have weird effects on some other monoculture, such as military culture ?
Oh come on, this is just trolling...
I guess you completely missed my point… if the article would have said "OpenOffice.org Impress" I would have just said: it is using the wrong tools (exactly like I said for Powerpoint in my previous email).
Exactly, so it is not about free software or proprietary software, therefore definitely offtopic.
Here, the fact that it is proprietary software is an explanation of why they use the wrong tools → because they don't really have the choice
I see no evidence of this. They use a presentation tool because they want to use a presentation tool, it doesn't matter if it is poerpoint or impress.
(less choice resulting from proprietary software monoculture → everybody uses the same tools designed by the same people, here Microsoft).
The issue here is not a better/worse presentation tool, nor the choice.
Don't misunderstand me Using OpenOffice would have been almost as stupid as using Office. They are wrong tools for such things as establishing solid military strategy IMHO.
Not almost, for the problem at hand it would have been exactly as problematic. Because this is not a software freedom problem, just a military problem.
Finally, this is not offtopic. We are not discussing military strategy here, but discussing on how good Free Software is for giving us the right tools to achieve what we want.
Ok, then tell me how Free Software would have made any significant difference here.
Simo.
Le jeudi 29 avril 2010 à 09:02 -0400, simo a écrit :
Ok, then tell me how Free Software would have made any significant difference here.
The point is not wheter they would have benefit from using a Free Software like Impress instead of a proprietary software like Powerpoint (I thought I made it clear in my 2 previous emails).
The point is Free Software would have made a significant change because, contrary to proprietary software monoculture, you have more choice in Free Software, so you can more easily choose the right tool, not necessarily the tool that Microsoft wants to provide you because Microsoft thinks that this suits your needs. Since when does Microsoft know better than the US military which tool to use in order to establish a solid military strategy?
With Free Software, the US Military would have chosen its tool, or if they didn't find it, they would have take an existing tool and modify it to make a better tool to fit their needs.
That is a significant difference I guess.
Best, Hugo