Hello,
I am new to this list and have not checked the archives regarding this question, so perhaps this matter has been brought to your attention already, and needs no further discussion.
If it has not, here's the issue:
In their Yast License, section 3, they state something along the lines that it is forbidden to duplicate SuSE linux (and ofc yast) without their prior written consent (and possibly a fee)
Now, SuSE linux contains a vast number of programs that are licensed under the terms of the GPL, or LGPL. One of these "programs" is a linux kernel (suse contains a modified kernel, not the stock one from kernel.org).
However, the GPL forbids programs that use the license to use other licenses/conditions, or to restrict the gpl further (items 4, 6 and 7 of the gpl).
Below are the original postings to a list of some LUG, mainly included for the references
Hoping for a clarification.
SuSE has been notified of this, about a month ago, and till now I have not received a reply.
Robert Ribnitz
--
Hello,
Now it's 2002, and a happy/successful new year to all those at = Linuxbourg..
Marcos came to me with a question, and I think I found why SuSE cannot = be copied.
The only thing is that to me, the formulation is not clear.
The YaST Copyright can be found at:=20 ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/7.3/COPYRIGHT.yast (1)
The Debian Free Software Guidelines are at: =09 http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines (2)
The offending Paragraph in (1) reads:
"3. Dissemination
It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. Distribution of the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH.
All programmes derived from YaST, and all works derived thereof as a whole or parts thereof may only be disseminated with the amended sources and this licence in accordance with 2b). Making YaST or works derived thereof available free of charge together with SuSE Linux on FTP Servers and mailboxes is permitted if the licences on the software are observed."
or in German (farther down)
"3) Weitergabe
Es ist untersagt, ohne vorherige schriftliche Genehmigung der SuSE GmbH YaST oder SuSE Linux gegen Entgelt zu vervielf=E4ltigen oder unberechtigt vervielf=E4ltigte Datentr=E4ger zu verbreiten. Die Verteilung gegen Entgelt des Programms YaST, dessen Quellen, ob vollst=E4ndig oder teilweise ver=E4ndert oder unver=E4ndert, und der daraus abgeleiteten Werke bed=FCrfen der vorherigen schriftlichen Zustimmung der SuSE GmbH.=20
Alle aus YaST abgeleiteten Programme und alle vollst=E4ndig oder auszugweise abgeleiteten Werke d=FCrfen nach 2b) nur mit den = ver=E4nderten Quellen und dieser Lizenz weitergegeben werden. Die kostenfreie Bereitstellung von YaST oder daraus abgeleiteten Werken zusammen mit SuSE Linux auf FTP-Servern und Mailboxen ist unter Beachtung der Lizenzen der Software gestattet. "
in French (father down) the passage reads as follows:
"3) Diffusion
Il est interdit, sans accord pr=E9alable donn=E9 par =E9crit par SuSE GmbH, de reproduire, =E0 titre on=E9reux, YaST ou SuSE Linux ou de diffuser des supports de programmes reproduits sans autorisation.=20 La distribution, =E0 titre on=E9reux du programme YaST et de ses sources, qu'il s'agisse d'une version modifi=E9e totalement, partiellement ou ne comportant aucune modification ainsi que la distribution des ouvrages qui en sont d=E9riv=E9s n=E9cessitent l'autorisation pr=E9alable et =E9crite de SuSE GmbH.
Tous les programmes d=E9riv=E9s de YaST et tous les ouvrages qui en = sont d=E9riv=E9s totalement ou partiellement ne peuvent =EAtre diffus=E9s, conform=E9ment au paragraphe 2b), qu'accompagn=E9s des sources = modifi=E9s ainsi que de la presente licence. La mise =E0 disposition gratuite de YaST ou d'ouvrages qui en sont d=E9riv=E9s sur serveurs FTP ou bo=EEtes = =E0 lettres est autorisee si les termes de la licence sur les logiciels sont respect=E9s."
Now my questions to the list
a) are we allowed to copy YaST? - may we charge for media/copying costs?
b) can the Yast license be considered "compatible" with (2)?
I am keen to hear other opinions, because if the answer to both = questions is yes, then there's no reason we do not support / have SuSE Linux.
Robert --
Hello,
I looked at the issues involved in the YaST license a bit more closely.
Here is an extract of the GPL, which can be found at =
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft . Please note that only the english text is =
legally binding, but translations do exist:
"4. You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program excep= t as =
expressly provided under this License. Any attempt otherwise to copy, modify, sublicense or distribute the Program is void, and will automatica= lly =
terminate your rights under this License. However, parties who have received copies, or rights, from you under this License will not have the= ir =
licenses terminated so long as such parties remain in full compliance.
5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not signed= it. =
However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or distribute the Program or its derivative works. These actions are prohibited by law if y= ou do =
not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying or distributing the Program (or any work based on the Program), you indicate your acceptance = of =
this License to do so, and all its terms and conditions for copying, distributing or modifying the Program or works based on it. =
6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Progr= am), =
the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms= and =
conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein. You are not responsibl= e for =
enforcing compliance by third parties to this License.
7. If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent =
infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), =
conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that =
contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from th= e conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy =
simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinen= t obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at = all. =
For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or= =
indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and t= his License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program. "
Now, lets look again at the YaST License (source, see my earlier posting)=
""3. Dissemination
It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. Distribution of the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH."
I see the following problem there:
SuSE Linux contains programs issued under the terms of the GPL, among oth= er =
things the linux kernel.
In my opinion, however, this "Dissemination" violates clauses 4 and perha= ps 7 =
of the gpl.
Robert
On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 17:49, RIBNITZ Robert wrote:
In their Yast License, section 3, they state something along the lines that it is forbidden to duplicate SuSE linux (and ofc yast) without their prior written consent (and possibly a fee)
Now, SuSE linux contains a vast number of programs that are licensed under the terms of the GPL, or LGPL. One of these "programs" is a linux kernel (suse contains a modified kernel, not the stock one from kernel.org).
However, the GPL forbids programs that use the license to use other licenses/conditions, or to restrict the gpl further (items 4, 6 and 7 of the gpl).
(IANAL) Many programs on the SuSE CD's are under the GPL. YAST is under it's own license, and as long as YAST doesn't _link_ to GPL'ed code, it may be. And it's not forbidden to distribute software of different licenses on the same CD. IIRC SuSE even distributes demo versions of non-free software on their CDs.
So SuSE seems to be just another software company that doesn't want to give its users the freedom they deserve, but they act (IMHO) perfectly legal.
Thanks,
Hi,
On 7 Feb 2002, Reinhard Müller kindly wrote:
On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 17:49, RIBNITZ Robert wrote:
In their Yast License, section 3, they state something along the lines that it is forbidden to duplicate SuSE linux (and ofc yast) without their prior written consent (and possibly a fee)
Now, SuSE linux contains a vast number of programs that are licensed under the terms of the GPL, or LGPL. One of these "programs" is a linux kernel (suse contains a modified kernel, not the stock one from kernel.org).
However, the GPL forbids programs that use the license to use other licenses/conditions, or to restrict the gpl further (items 4, 6 and 7 of the gpl).
(IANAL) Many programs on the SuSE CD's are under the GPL. YAST is under it's own license, and as long as YAST doesn't _link_ to GPL'ed code, it may be. And it's not forbidden to distribute software of different licenses on the same CD. IIRC SuSE even distributes demo versions of non-free software on their CDs.
So SuSE seems to be just another software company that doesn't want to give its users the freedom they deserve, but they act (IMHO) perfectly legal.
(IAAL) It is indeed.
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2002 17:49 schrieb RIBNITZ Robert:
Hello,
I am new to this list and have not checked the archives regarding this question, so perhaps this matter has been brought to your attention already, and needs no further discussion.
If it has not, here's the issue:
In their Yast License, section 3, they state something along the lines that it is forbidden to duplicate SuSE linux (and ofc yast) without their prior written consent (and possibly a fee)
Now, SuSE linux contains a vast number of programs that are licensed under the terms of the GPL, or LGPL. One of these "programs" is a linux kernel (suse contains a modified kernel, not the stock one from kernel.org).
However, the GPL forbids programs that use the license to use other licenses/conditions, or to restrict the gpl further (items 4, 6 and 7 of the gpl).
Below are the original postings to a list of some LUG, mainly included for the references
Hoping for a clarification.
SuSE has been notified of this, about a month ago, and till now I have not received a reply.
Robert Ribnitz
Hi Robert I think that's OK. Just take a look in the package-series, which is called "pay". You'll see a lot of Software, which is not published under the terms of the GPL. If you make copies of the Distri, you'll violate many licenses of this software-packages. The YaST-License grants you IMHO the right to distribute YaST free of Charge. If you want to make money with that copies, you will probably have to pay for this. IMHO is that the reason, you should contact SuSE before doing so. I think, if you would just charge your copies with the costs you had yourself to produce, SuSE does not charge you (I think so, I do not know, what they will do)
CU Thorsten