Hello,
I have a question about a german software which is distributed with GPL License:
The software is called "tudo". It seems to be sort of an ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) system. You'll find it at http://www.bemme.de
The author of the software says at http://www.bemme.de/index1.php
<citation> Konsequente Offenheit Tudo wird mit dem kompletten Quellcode ausgeliefert, der unter der GNU General Public Licence gestellt wurde. Das garantiert Ihnen einhundert Prozent Unabhängigkeit. Sie können jederzeit den Code einsehen, editieren und erweitern. <citation>
I'll try to translate this to english:
<translation> Consequently OpenSource: Tudo is distributed with complete sourcecode, which is licensed as GPL. This guarantees you 100% independence. You can always view, edit and upgrade the code. </translation>
When you go the download section of http://www.bemme.de, you can only download version <= 1.20 with restricted features. On this page http://www.bemme.de/order.php you can *order* ths software and on this page, you find the prices: http://www.bemme.de/price.php. On the latter page, the authors tells us:
<citation> Preise: Für das Programmpaket berechnen wir Euro 99,50. Darin enthalten ist das Programm Tudo mit Quellcode, Benutzerhandbuch und 30 Tage kostenlosen Email-Support mit Zugang zum Servicebereich dieser Homepage. Die Zahlung erfolgt per Vorkasse oder Nachnahme. Bei Vorkasse werden keine Versandkosten berechnet. Der Zugriff auf den Servicebereich ist auf unbegrenzte Zeit. Alle Updates sind zum freien Download verfügbar.
Für das Programm und alle seine Komponenten (Betriebssystem, Datenbankgröße, etc.) fallen keine Lizenzgebühren an. Sie bezahlen lediglich die Dienstleistungen für Installation, Support und Programmierung. </citation>
I'll try to translate:
<translation> Prices: For the software-package we charge you EUR 99,50. It includes the software tudo including it's source, a manual and 30 days of charge-free e-mail-support with access to the servicesection of this homepage. The payment is done against prepayment or against cash-on-delivery. In case of prepayment the delivery itself will be free of charge. The access to the service-section will then be unrestricted forever. All future updates are free to download. For the software itself and all it's components (operatingsystem, databasesize etc.), there will be no royalties. You only pay for the service for installion, support and programming. </translation>
I am no expert in juridical questions, so I'm sending my question the this list and hope to get an answer from someone more familiar with this matter.
The question is: is this in accordance with GPL?
The author of the software doesn't give the neither the software as binary nor the sourcecode away for free-charge, but says it's GPL!? The author says:
1) "Tudo is distributed with complete sourcecode, which is licensed as GPL."
and
2) "You can always view, edit and upgrade the code."
and
3) "For the software itself and all it's components (operatingsystem, databasesize etc.), there will be no royalties."
but
4) "For the software-package we charge you EUR 99,50"
and
5) "You only pay for the service for installion, support and programming."
Despite that 3) and 5) are a contradiction in terms, I'm not quite sure, if this license the author distributes the software under is compliant with GPL, is it?
Can anybody give a juridical evaluation!?
Many thanks in advance! Regards Volker
P.S.: I don't like closed source and I don't like violations of the GPL either, that why I ask.
- "Tudo is distributed with complete sourcecode, which is licensed as GPL."
- "You can always view, edit and upgrade the code."
- "For the software itself and all it's components (operatingsystem,
databasesize etc.), there will be no royalties."
So far so good.
- "For the software-package we charge you EUR 99,50"
This means only that to get the GPL'ed software you can't download it for free, but will have to buy a software package that will give you...
- "You only pay for the service for installion, support and programming."
Doesn't seem like a violation.
Selling Free Software Can Be OK! http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
In the GPL FAQ, starting at
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
you can read:
Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money? Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)
Does the GPL allow me to charge a fee for downloading the program from my site? Yes. You can charge any fee you wish for distributing a copy of the program. If you distribute binaries by download, you must provide "equivalent access" to download the source--therefore, the fee to download source may not be greater than the fee to download the binary.
Hugs, Rui
The question is: is this in accordance with GPL?
I didn't read everything in detail, but it looks like it is.
The author of the software doesn't give the neither the software as binary nor the sourcecode away for free-charge, but says it's GPL!?
You are quite free to charge for free software, the GPL doesn't force you to give it away gratis. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html for example.
Infact, I wish more free software projectes would do their business like this.
Cheers.
I agree with the replies you already got. I'm writing about this detail, that I think it's important:
- "For the software itself and all it's components (operatingsystem,
databasesize etc.), there will be no royalties." 4) "For the software-package we charge you EUR 99,50" 5) "You only pay for the service for installion, support and programming."
Despite that 3) and 5) are a contradiction in terms,
It's not a contradiction. The "royalty" is a payment associated to the act of copying, and free software has no royalties by its own definition. They charge for something else, which is perfectly fine, without denying your freedoms once you have received your copy [at least, that's what I get from the text you quoted].
/alessandro
I'd say its allowed what they do, because they deliver the source code with the program and that's exactly what the GPL demands. But GPL also says:
1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep intact all the notices that refer to this License and to the absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program.
so if you buy the program you can put the sourcecode on a public webserver from where everyone can get it for free. that's why this business model doesn't work with free software.
they also say:
"You only pay for the service for installion, support and programming."
service and support is ok but programming is not and cannot be. product of programming is the source code and source code is freely available due to the section of the gpl quoted above. its hard to take money for something which everyone can get for free.
i'm not an expert either but that's how i interpret the gpl.
regards, moritz
Volker Sauer vsauer@dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de writes:
Hello,
I have a question about a german software which is distributed with GPL License:
The software is called "tudo". It seems to be sort of an ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) system. You'll find it at http://www.bemme.de
The author of the software says at http://www.bemme.de/index1.php
<citation> Konsequente Offenheit Tudo wird mit dem kompletten Quellcode ausgeliefert, der unter der GNU General Public Licence gestellt wurde. Das garantiert Ihnen einhundert Prozent Unabhängigkeit. Sie können jederzeit den Code einsehen, editieren und erweitern. <citation>
I'll try to translate this to english:
<translation> Consequently OpenSource: Tudo is distributed with complete sourcecode, which is licensed as GPL. This guarantees you 100% independence. You can always view, edit and upgrade the code. </translation>
When you go the download section of http://www.bemme.de, you can only download version <= 1.20 with restricted features. On this page http://www.bemme.de/order.php you can *order* ths software and on this page, you find the prices: http://www.bemme.de/price.php. On the latter page, the authors tells us:
<citation> Preise: Für das Programmpaket berechnen wir Euro 99,50. Darin enthalten ist das Programm Tudo mit Quellcode, Benutzerhandbuch und 30 Tage kostenlosen Email-Support mit Zugang zum Servicebereich dieser Homepage. Die Zahlung erfolgt per Vorkasse oder Nachnahme. Bei Vorkasse werden keine Versandkosten berechnet. Der Zugriff auf den Servicebereich ist auf unbegrenzte Zeit. Alle Updates sind zum freien Download verfügbar.
Für das Programm und alle seine Komponenten (Betriebssystem, Datenbankgröße, etc.) fallen keine Lizenzgebühren an. Sie bezahlen lediglich die Dienstleistungen für Installation, Support und Programmierung.
</citation>
I'll try to translate:
<translation> Prices: For the software-package we charge you EUR 99,50. It includes the software tudo including it's source, a manual and 30 days of charge-free e-mail-support with access to the servicesection of this homepage. The payment is done against prepayment or against cash-on-delivery. In case of prepayment the delivery itself will be free of charge. The access to the service-section will then be unrestricted forever. All future updates are free to download. For the software itself and all it's components (operatingsystem, databasesize etc.), there will be no royalties. You only pay for the service for installion, support and programming. </translation>
I am no expert in juridical questions, so I'm sending my question the this list and hope to get an answer from someone more familiar with this matter.
The question is: is this in accordance with GPL?
The author of the software doesn't give the neither the software as binary nor the sourcecode away for free-charge, but says it's GPL!? The author says:
- "Tudo is distributed with complete sourcecode, which is licensed as GPL."
and
- "You can always view, edit and upgrade the code."
and
- "For the software itself and all it's components (operatingsystem,
databasesize etc.), there will be no royalties."
but
- "For the software-package we charge you EUR 99,50"
and
- "You only pay for the service for installion, support and programming."
Despite that 3) and 5) are a contradiction in terms, I'm not quite sure, if this license the author distributes the software under is compliant with GPL, is it?
Can anybody give a juridical evaluation!?
Many thanks in advance! Regards Volker
P.S.: I don't like closed source and I don't like violations of the GPL either, that why I ask.
-- 8<------------------------------------------------------------ Databases and Distributed Systems Group Computer Science Department, Darmstadt University of Technology Wilhelminenstrasse 7, D-64283 Darmstadt, Germany Email: vsauer@dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
On Fri, 2004-03-26 at 20:37, Moritz Sinn wrote:
"You only pay for the service for installion, support and programming."
service and support is ok but programming is not and cannot be. product of programming is the source code and source code is freely available due to the section of the gpl quoted above. its hard to take money for something which everyone can get for free.
i'm not an expert either but that's how i interpret the gpl.
Sorry moritz, I think you're wrong. Programming is just another service, wether the program license is then set to be GPL or something else.
You pay me to make a program, I give it you back under the GPL. That's perfectly fine.
And you as user, can ask me to make other modifications (and pay for my customization work), or just go and pay another programmer to do the same.
Simo.