Hi Everyone!
Okay, a few more things about the logo issue.
First of all the stars _are_ being associated with the EU as they are using them as "their" symbol. So I agree with the people thinking that it would be a bad idea to use it. But even if we chose to ignore that and wanted to use the stars, we might even get in trouble with them as it is possible the EU would not want us to use them and forbid us to do so. That would do serious "logo image damage."
I have taken another route, too, and asked my mother for advice as she is a professional artist and "having an eye for things" is her job. So I wasn't beyond making good use of that for our purposes. :-)
Her comments were:
- The more abstract logo itself is pretty good, especially as the frontal view "involves" the viewer. Only the eyes should definitely be left away.
- There should definitely be a background as it looks to "flat" otherwise and she the European map more than anything else she could think of.
Personally I agree with her assessment (I have come to trust it over the years) and I do believe that the logo with the map in the background will work just fine - scaling it down to 100x98 or something like that is just fine.
So could you please do a big high quality version of the GNU & Europa motive without eyes with the map in the background, Anja? I'd love to see that... we can play around with the colors then, too...
Regards, Georg
Hi *!
Georg C. F. Greve wrote:
- There should definitely be a background as it looks to "flat" otherwise and she the European map more than anything else she could think of.
As some pointed out, that the map is too complex and raises again the issue of what Europe is exactly, I would propose a simple outlined E as the background. Like this one:
+-------+ ! ! ! +----+ ! ! ! +--+ ! ! ! +--+ ! ! ! +----+ ! ! +-------+
OK, OK, not perfect, but you get the idea.
So could you please do a big high quality version of the GNU & Europa motive without eyes with the map in the background, Anja? I'd love to see that... we can play around with the colors then, too...
To Anja: ... and maybe a version with an outlined E in the background? You could even use this for your local LUG, since it fits Essen as well... greetings to the ELUG by the way!
Bye, Marc _______________________________________________________________________________
email: marc@greenie.net email: m.a.eberhard@aston.ac.uk, web: http://www.aston.ac.uk/~eberhama/
Hello, everyone,
Georg C. F. Greve wrote on Jan 02, 2001 at 04:31PM +0100:
First of all the stars _are_ being associated with the EU as they are using them as "their" symbol. So I agree with the people thinking that it would be a bad idea to use it.
I agree, too. Let's forget about the stars. Personally, I like them, but as they are not associated with whole Europe and a positive feeling in some countries, we should rather pick something else.
- The more abstract logo itself is pretty good, especially as the frontal view "involves" the viewer. Only the eyes should definitely be left away.
In my opinion the gnu looks too harsh without eyes. But that goes already into detail. We still have to decide on the overall concept of the logo. We can talk about such details later.
- There should definitely be a background as it looks to "flat" otherwise and she the European map more than anything else she could think of.
I agree. I think the background should have a specific colour which would be part of the logo. In high resolution versions (e.g. letterhead), it can be a detailed background (I would like a map best). In low resolution (web page button), the background would be solid colour.
A logo needs colour IMO, and choosing a colour is almost as vital as choosing a logo because it will be part of the FSFE's "corporate design". So ... what colour should be associated with the FSFE? My personal preference is a soft green, but would do others think?
Personally I agree with her assessment (I have come to trust it over the years) and I do believe that the logo with the map in the background will work just fine - scaling it down to 100x98 or something like that is just fine.
It is still visible in button size. But IMO it needs a solid colour background to be easily recognized. Colour and shape jump to the eye more quickly than small lines.
Thinking about small sizes I figure that something with an unusual shape, e.g. a silhouette, might even be better. The Linux penguin both has an unusual shape and a strong set of colours (black / white / yellow). I have been thinking about silhouettes of a gnu and a rider last week. There are a few more logo samples at my page:
http://agnes.dida.physik.uni-essen.de/~anja/gnu/
What logo would I prefer personally?
My favourite is: * Europa & Gnu drawn with lines only: solid colour background for low resolution (e.g. web page buttons), map backdrop for high resolution (e.g. paper mail).
I also like the following idea (*no sample image so far*): * Silhouette of Europa (girl in a greek gown) riding a gnu seen from the side. It should be similar to http://agnes.dida.physik.uni-essen.de/~anja/gnu/bw-side-with-marianne.png but with a different rider.
So could you please do a big high quality version of the GNU & Europa motive without eyes with the map in the background, Anja? I'd love to see that... we can play around with the colors then, too...
You can download the XCF file for the logo with map backdrop from my page. The direct link is http://agnes.dida.physik.uni-essen.de/~anja/gnu/with-map.xcf
It has a higher resolution than the inline image on the web page. For experimenting with colours it should do, I hope. You need Gimp 1.1 or higher for this as the XCF format changed from 1.0 to 1.1.
(Gimp technical note: The layer with the map is set to "keep transparency" and to an opacity level below 100%. The first means that if you "Select --> All" and bucket-fill it, only the map changes color, which is probably what you want. The second means that it looks pastel. If you don't like this, set the opacity level to 100% with the slide bar in the layers dialog.)
I did not upload XCF files for all images as they are so large and I only have a slow connection. If anyone needs XCF files of other images just let me know.
As someone pointed out, the final version should be scalable, i.e. vector graphics. If one of my line art or silhouette logo designs "makes it", I promise to do it in a scalable format (with xfig, sketch or Metafont) that can be converted to PostScript. I don't think my other samples can be re-done in a scalable format within a decent amount of time. They are merely intended as a contribution to brainstorming. ;-)
Best wishes,
Anja
Hi Anja!
|| On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 22:36:15 +0100 || Anja Drewitz anja@44615166.Theo-Phys.Uni-Essen.DE wrote:
- The more abstract logo itself is pretty good, especially as the
frontal view "involves" the viewer. Only the eyes should definitely be left away.
ad> In my opinion the gnu looks too harsh without eyes.
I don't know - my personal impression is that it looks rather evil with eyes.
But the eyes are out for a very simple reason: too much detail for a logo.
ad> A logo needs colour IMO, and choosing a colour is almost as vital ad> as choosing a logo because it will be part of the FSFE's ad> "corporate design". So ... what colour should be associated with ad> the FSFE? My personal preference is a soft green, but would do ad> others think?
I'm always a person for "solid" colors. Preferrably not too bright, blue and green would work for me, I guess.
ad> Thinking about small sizes I figure that something with an ad> unusual shape, e.g. a silhouette, might even be better. The Linux ad> penguin both has an unusual shape and a strong set of colours ad> (black / white / yellow).
The Linux penguin is a mascot and not really a logo (although it is used in logos). But it does work because it has a VERY simple outline that is pretty chubby and almost the same size in all dimensions (at least the same order).
ad> I have been thinking about silhouettes of a gnu and a rider last ad> week. There are a few more logo samples at my page:
They aren't too bad but totally unsuited as a logo. First of all a silhouette is too "flat" in appearance and too "heavy." The view from the side is impersonal and doesn't involve the viewer and it has MUCH TOO MUCH detail.
The idea with the "E" in the background isn't bad, but I think I like the map much better. The favority (as far as quality as a logo is concerned) is still the minimalistic "Europa on a GNU" sketch without eyes on a map of Europe.
ad> As someone pointed out, the final version should be scalable, ad> i.e. vector graphics. If one of my line art or silhouette logo ad> designs "makes it", I promise to do it in a scalable format (with ad> xfig, sketch or Metafont) that can be converted to PostScript. I ad> don't think my other samples can be re-done in a scalable format ad> within a decent amount of time. They are merely intended as a ad> contribution to brainstorming. ;-)
Thanks a lot. Your work is greatly appreciated...
Later, Georg
Hi!
Georg C. F. Greve wrote:
ad> In my opinion the gnu looks too harsh without eyes.
I don't know - my personal impression is that it looks rather evil with eyes.
That's funny - for me it's vice versa: It looks more friendly with eyes than without. :-)
But the eyes are out for a very simple reason: too much detail for a logo.
Not really, IMHO. They might become just dots associated with short lines in small sizes, but they still have influence on the picture.
I have seen a lot of logos with much smaller details - typically logos of serious intitutes with long traditions. The very small details are not really visible in small sizes but they still give a nice impression.
Not that I insist in very small details in the FSFE logo, but IMHO we should not reject them when they are there and improve the picture.
ad> I have been thinking about silhouettes of a gnu and a rider last ad> week. There are a few more logo samples at my page:
They aren't too bad but totally unsuited as a logo. First of all a silhouette is too "flat" in appearance and too "heavy." The view from the side is impersonal and doesn't involve the viewer
I can understand this, but ...
and it has MUCH TOO MUCH detail.
... here I beg to differ. The outlines of the silhouettes are concise enough to be recognized even in very small sizes. Only some small details (and not "MUCH TOO MUCH") should be changed IMHO. For example we should repair Marianne's gown so it cannot be mistaken for hair any more, and the flag should be clearly separated from her head (although that means some deviation from Delacroix' painting).
[...] The favority (as far as quality as a logo is concerned) is still the minimalistic "Europa on a GNU" sketch without eyes on a map of Europe.
That's my favourite too, but with eyes. (_.- -._) o o Greetings, "" Peter
ad> In my opinion the gnu looks too harsh without eyes.
I don't know - my personal impression is that it looks rather evil with eyes.
I have to say, I /kind/ of agree :) I think with the eyes it looks kind of menacing, but I would like to see if anything could be changed to make them a little friendlier. Or perhaps Gnu & Europe could be our version of 'good cop / bad cop' <g>
I also think it would look better without the eyes if the eye-brows weren't so prominant - Europe is featureless also in the picture, but less attention seems to be drawn to her lack of face. I like the abstractness of the 'without eyes', though, it like it better than the with-eyes one, though only marginally ;))
I also like the fist-aloft silhouette one as well, I think that's my favourite.. there seems to be something about 'freedom' associated with it, it feels quite right.
Cheers,
Alex.