Hi everyone,
on July 9 at the Libre Software Meeting / RMLL in Brussels, we're organising a big panel discussion on "Technology, Power and Freedom":
http://fsfe.org/events/2013/rmll-2013.html
After the news about wide-ranging communications surveillance we've heard in recent weeks, this topic is arguably even more pressing than it was before. But we want to look at the long term:
What do we need to change in politics and technology today to build a better world tomorrow?
For this discussion we're bringing some of the Free Software movement's leading minds together with the people who represent us in the European Parliament. We're extremely happy to have a list of first-rate participants:
Eben Moglen (Columbia University / Software Freedom Law Center) Richard M Stallman (FSF) Judith Sargentini (MEP Greens/EFA) Marc Tarabella (MEP S&D - tbc) Nils Torvalds (MEP ALDE) Ioannis A. Tsoukalas (MEP EPP)
I'd like your input: What should we ask these people? What are your most urgent questions on technology and politics?
Please post your questions here, and we'll gather them and get them to Brussels.
Thanks & best, Karsten
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On 28/06/13 22:39, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
Hi everyone,
on July 9 at the Libre Software Meeting / RMLL in Brussels, we're organising a big panel discussion on "Technology, Power and Freedom":
http://fsfe.org/events/2013/rmll-2013.html
After the news about wide-ranging communications surveillance we've heard in recent weeks, this topic is arguably even more pressing than it was before. But we want to look at the long term:
What do we need to change in politics and technology today to build a better world tomorrow?
For this discussion we're bringing some of the Free Software movement's leading minds together with the people who represent us in the European Parliament. We're extremely happy to have a list of first-rate participants:
Eben Moglen (Columbia University / Software Freedom Law Center) Richard M Stallman (FSF) Judith Sargentini (MEP Greens/EFA) Marc Tarabella (MEP S&D - tbc) Nils Torvalds (MEP ALDE) Ioannis A. Tsoukalas (MEP EPP)
I'd like your input: What should we ask these people? What are your most urgent questions on technology and politics?
I can think of various themes, maybe people can work some questions around these, some of them would even be enough to justify a panel of their own:
a) crypto-currencies (of which Bitcoin is only one example)
At first glance, it appears like a simple topic, but it is not. Currency is fundamentally intertwined with concepts of power. It is widely speculated that Saddam's decision to price Iraqi oil in EUR rather than USD (and a similar attitude from Venezuela) prompted the invasion to hunt for those WMDs that everybody now agrees he never had.
The power of the USD is having far-reaching effects: look at things like the SWIFT payment system snooping scandal a few years ago, or more recently the US has been pushing Swiss banks to disclose full lists of their employees to US regulators. Many Swiss banks (previously known for a commitment to privacy) have to operate some kind of US branch or payment facility for handling US dollars and they are now finding those arrangements have become indispensable, putting them under immense pressure to comply with more and more US regulations.
However, the US powers haven't worked that way forever: early Americans were vigorously opposed to the idea of a central bank. The Federal Reserve, as it works today, only came into existence in 1913 after many previous attempts were tried and then discarded: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System#Timeline_of_central_bank...
Should the EUR just copy USD associated behavior, power plays, etc or is there an opportunity to be more innovative, introducing crypto-currency concepts in a legal manner without the problems of central banking?
b) Government communication technology
Why does the European parliament not switch to a secure email scheme, e.g. PGP? Rather than using laws to change things, they should seek to change the way people interact with Government and use that to set an example.
How can independent Governments extend the same concept to social media, e.g. dumping Facebook and using a federated platform?
c) the funding gap
Some of Eben's talks have been very accurate and also very motivating, but the reality is developers need to eat. As we've heard from Mr Snowden, the NSA pays quite well whereas many free software developers feel undervalued or only do experiments in their spare time for reasons of personal curiosity rather than to make a lasting solution. Consequently many open source solutions are not "polished" in such a way that the general public can or will use them.
The rates I see for open source development often fall far short of the rates I see doing proprietary work in banks or defense projects. Amongst those people who have political will or funding capacity, I've often observed a failure to appreciate the benefit of paying the rates of premium developers (those who make the most secure and reliable code) - in some cases there seems to be an attitude that developers are all the same and should be paid the same.
Things like crowdfunding get a lot of headlines but the reality is that (a) lots of work is involved in the fundraising/publicity phase and (b) crowd funding is more like a lottery, projects only succeed there if they are lucky enough to get promoted in slashdot or mainstream media.
What is the solution? Can organisations (either government or private sector) either provide direct funding or facilitate a more effective crowdfunding effort? Can this be done without devaluing developers, e.g. paying market rates rather than asking them to work for charity?
d) public perception
Before the Snowden scandal, a number of people asked me if I was paranoid (e.g. for promoting ZRTP in Lumicall). Privacy scandals happen all the time: just look at the phone hacking in the UK. Despite all this clear evidence in broad daylight, people are just not getting the message.
Is it a lost cause?
Or does money need to be invested to educate people?
Or is it better to focus on areas like small business where the owners can be educated about the value of their data because they have a lot more to lose?
Why is privacy more of a concern in places like Germany and largely ignored in places like Australia?
Some responses to surveillance/censorship is if enough people all do it at the same time then they can't stop you all. The message will get though. They recognise that is ugly but don't think that the evil yuck yuck (lock-in, monopoly, saas, spybook,etc) can be replaced. There opinion is that the bad guys, ie gov would be winning by splitting people up. Those not on spybook and suckers who are. That they admit/are losing control by switching and so to show that they will not submit or something, They will keep using spybook.
Hopefully I didn't forget anything or make mistakes.
My thought/question is: but how do you get all those people to do it when they can kill the campaign off in the early days. Currently they have been affectedly letting you do your campaigns like in the east but that’s a false sense of err "security".
Thank you very much for this opportunity and all your work.
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Today's news probably adds weight to point (b) in my email from yesterday
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/30/nsa-leaks-us-bugging-european-al...
On 29/06/13 19:08, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 28/06/13 22:39, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
Hi everyone,
on July 9 at the Libre Software Meeting / RMLL in Brussels, we're organising a big panel discussion on "Technology, Power and Freedom":
After the news about wide-ranging communications surveillance we've heard in recent weeks, this topic is arguably even more pressing than it was before. But we want to look at the long term:
What do we need to change in politics and technology today to build a better world tomorrow?
For this discussion we're bringing some of the Free Software movement's leading minds together with the people who represent us in the European Parliament. We're extremely happy to have a list of first-rate participants:
Eben Moglen (Columbia University / Software Freedom Law Center) Richard M Stallman (FSF) Judith Sargentini (MEP Greens/EFA) Marc Tarabella (MEP S&D - tbc) Nils Torvalds (MEP ALDE) Ioannis A. Tsoukalas (MEP EPP)
I'd like your input: What should we ask these people? What are your most urgent questions on technology and politics?
I can think of various themes, maybe people can work some questions around these, some of them would even be enough to justify a panel of their own:
a) crypto-currencies (of which Bitcoin is only one example)
At first glance, it appears like a simple topic, but it is not. Currency is fundamentally intertwined with concepts of power. It is widely speculated that Saddam's decision to price Iraqi oil in EUR rather than USD (and a similar attitude from Venezuela) prompted the invasion to hunt for those WMDs that everybody now agrees he never had.
The power of the USD is having far-reaching effects: look at things like the SWIFT payment system snooping scandal a few years ago, or more recently the US has been pushing Swiss banks to disclose full lists of their employees to US regulators. Many Swiss banks (previously known for a commitment to privacy) have to operate some kind of US branch or payment facility for handling US dollars and they are now finding those arrangements have become indispensable, putting them under immense pressure to comply with more and more US regulations.
However, the US powers haven't worked that way forever: early Americans were vigorously opposed to the idea of a central bank. The Federal Reserve, as it works today, only came into existence in 1913 after many previous attempts were tried and then discarded: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System#Timeline_of_central_bank...
Should the EUR just copy USD associated behavior, power plays, etc or is there an opportunity to be more innovative, introducing crypto-currency concepts in a legal manner without the problems of central banking?
b) Government communication technology
Why does the European parliament not switch to a secure email scheme, e.g. PGP? Rather than using laws to change things, they should seek to change the way people interact with Government and use that to set an example.
How can independent Governments extend the same concept to social media, e.g. dumping Facebook and using a federated platform?
c) the funding gap
Some of Eben's talks have been very accurate and also very motivating, but the reality is developers need to eat. As we've heard from Mr Snowden, the NSA pays quite well whereas many free software developers feel undervalued or only do experiments in their spare time for reasons of personal curiosity rather than to make a lasting solution. Consequently many open source solutions are not "polished" in such a way that the general public can or will use them.
The rates I see for open source development often fall far short of the rates I see doing proprietary work in banks or defense projects. Amongst those people who have political will or funding capacity, I've often observed a failure to appreciate the benefit of paying the rates of premium developers (those who make the most secure and reliable code) - in some cases there seems to be an attitude that developers are all the same and should be paid the same.
Things like crowdfunding get a lot of headlines but the reality is that (a) lots of work is involved in the fundraising/publicity phase and (b) crowd funding is more like a lottery, projects only succeed there if they are lucky enough to get promoted in slashdot or mainstream media.
What is the solution? Can organisations (either government or private sector) either provide direct funding or facilitate a more effective crowdfunding effort? Can this be done without devaluing developers, e.g. paying market rates rather than asking them to work for charity?
d) public perception
Before the Snowden scandal, a number of people asked me if I was paranoid (e.g. for promoting ZRTP in Lumicall). Privacy scandals happen all the time: just look at the phone hacking in the UK. Despite all this clear evidence in broad daylight, people are just not getting the message.
Is it a lost cause?
Or does money need to be invested to educate people?
Or is it better to focus on areas like small business where the owners can be educated about the value of their data because they have a lot more to lose?
Why is privacy more of a concern in places like Germany and largely ignored in places like Australia?
_______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 10:39:10PM +0200, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
I'd like your input: What should we ask these people? What are your most urgent questions on technology and politics?
Let me put my question in a provocative way... What's more to fear? Terrorism or antiterror measures? I know which is more likely to affect me.
Building a better world for tomorrow? Oh yeah, I can remember such promises: https://archive.org/details/1984_1984_Apple.mov [SIGH]
On 29/06/13 19:41, Andreas K. Foerster wrote:
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 10:39:10PM +0200, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
I'd like your input: What should we ask these people? What are your most urgent questions on technology and politics?
Let me put my question in a provocative way... What's more to fear? Terrorism or antiterror measures?
That is a deceptive question. The real question would be
"What's more to fear? Terrorism or Government surveillance that is deceptively promoted as a way to fight terrorism?"
I know which is more likely to affect me.
Building a better world for tomorrow? Oh yeah, I can remember such promises: https://archive.org/details/1984_1984_Apple.mov [SIGH]
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 10:39:10PM +0200, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
What do we need to change in politics and technology today to build a better world tomorrow?
In todays world large mega corporations often have even more power than the politics.
Bruce Schneier describes the Internet today as a feudal system: https://www.schneier.com/essay-430.html
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 10:39:10PM +0200, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
Hi everyone,
on July 9 at the Libre Software Meeting / RMLL in Brussels, we're organising a big panel discussion on "Technology, Power and Freedom":
http://fsfe.org/events/2013/rmll-2013.html
After the news about wide-ranging communications surveillance we've heard in recent weeks, this topic is arguably even more pressing than it was before. But we want to look at the long term:
What do we need to change in politics and technology today to build a better world tomorrow?
TAFTA comes to mind.
Today I've read headlines to the UE complaining to the USA that allies don't spy each other.
Well do allies pact in secret ? Do they give privileged access to friends instead of scrutiny in parliaments and press ? Do you trust someone to spies on you to sell your new copyright laws to lobbies ?
Or maybe DRM.
Sorry, I'm too asleep, but I d'ont really have information, knowledge or time to help in something more concrete, I'm afraid.
On 28/06/13 21:39, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
I'd like your input: What should we ask these people? What are your most urgent questions on technology and politics?
How do we overcome the dodgy politicians and corporations who are pushing opt-out filtering for all internet connections with the misleading "we must stop children accessing porn" arguments?
Thanks,
On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 11:24 AM, MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
On 28/06/13 21:39, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
I'd like your input: What should we ask these people? What are your most urgent questions on technology and politics?
How do we overcome the dodgy politicians and corporations who are pushing opt-out filtering for all internet connections with the misleading "we must stop children accessing porn" arguments?
You say: if that's the worst you have to worry about, doing parenting for the parents, I think I will vote for a more serious minded politician who will attend to things that can only be addressed that the national/regional level.
Any further excuses are answered with: If you need to sell yourself to me, you don't understand how representative democracy is supposed to work.
Sam
Thanks,
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion