From jeroen@dekkers.cx Thu Feb 7 16:46:40 2002
On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 01:05:38PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
The result is that there is only CVS which cannot be called free.
Am I missing something? AFAIK CVS is completely free.
Yup, you are missing the difference between free beer and freedom.
While the CVD program is free, it does not give me the needed freedom.
Please note: in the 1980s CVS has been free only for universities.
The CVS authors did create a script that converts SCCS history fiules into RCS history files but not vice versa.
If I would have beeen interested to test CVS and later would find that I don't like it, I would not have the freedom to convert back to SCCS.
This was the most important reason for me not to convert to CVS in the 1980s.
Bitkeeper SCCS has other limitations in freedom of use but I see no reason why CVS should be any better.
Bitkeeper comes with source, you may use it for free if you send all delta logs to openlog.org ??. You are allowed to modify it if the result passes the regression test and if openlog.org is down for more then 3 months ?? then it becomes GPL'd.
On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 05:52:31PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
From jeroen@dekkers.cx Thu Feb 7 16:46:40 2002
On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 01:05:38PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
The result is that there is only CVS which cannot be called free.
Am I missing something? AFAIK CVS is completely free.
Yup, you are missing the difference between free beer and freedom.
AFAIK the CVS program is free (as in free speech).
While the CVD program is free, it does not give me the needed freedom.
What freedom?
Please note: in the 1980s CVS has been free only for universities.
I didn't know that. But if I'm right it's free
The CVS authors did create a script that converts SCCS history fiules into RCS history files but not vice versa.If I would have beeen interested to test CVS and later would find that I don't like it, I would not have the freedom to convert back to SCCS.
I don't see why that makes CVS non-free. You've the freedom to convert. You have the CVS source. The fact that nobody thinks that changing back to the (AFAIK non-free) SCCS system is worthwile to write a script for doesn't make CVS non-free. It doesn't prevent you from writing such a script.
Bitkeeper SCCS has other limitations in freedom of use but I see no reason why CVS should be any better.
Bitkeeper comes with source, you may use it for free if you send all delta logs to openlog.org ??. You are allowed to modify it if the result passes the regression test and if openlog.org is down for more then 3 months ?? then it becomes GPL'd.
From the point of usability, there is more freedom for a bitkeeper user than for a CVS user.
I can't modify the bitkeeper code and redistribute the modified version. I can do that with CVS. And that's why CVS is free software and bitkeeper isn't. And that's why bitkeeper is useless for me.
Jeroen Dekkers
Hi,
Joerg Schilling wrote:
From jeroen@dekkers.cx Thu Feb 7 16:46:40 2002
On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 01:05:38PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
The result is that there is only CVS which cannot be called free.
Am I missing something? AFAIK CVS is completely free.
Yup, you are missing the difference between free beer and freedom.
While the CVD program is free, it does not give me the needed freedom.
Please note: in the 1980s CVS has been free only for universities.
The CVS authors did create a script that converts SCCS history fiules into RCS history files but not vice versa.If I would have beeen interested to test CVS and later would find that I don't like it, I would not have the freedom to convert back to SCCS.
<snip>
I agree, but if it is fully documented, don't you have the freedom to write the script yourself? I do not see the problem in that.
/me going on little information, Wim
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:52:31 +0100 (CET), Joerg Schilling said:
Yup, you are missing the difference between free beer and freedom.
While the CVD program is free, it does not give me the needed freedom.
Come on Jörg, get real: You have all the freedom to change CVS as you like. Actually CVS has been heavily changed over the years and even the maintainer group changed from time to time [1].
Please note: in the 1980s CVS has been free only for universities.
*BSD used to be non free for a long time - so what.
If I would have beeen interested to test CVS and later would find that I don't like it, I would not have the freedom to convert back to SCCS.
It seems that not so many folks like the idea of going back to SCCS so it is unlikely that you will find someone doing this in his spare time. Just in case you have a need for it, a lot of Free Software companies would take the job of course.
Bitkeeper SCCS has other limitations in freedom of use but I see no reason why CVS should be any better.
Bitkeeper is proprietary - CVS is Free. Please don't throw your own interpretation of "freedom" in. Although there are some terms with the exact meaning under debate, the meaning of "freedom" is only re-interpreted in Orwellian regimes.
Bitkeeper comes with source, you may use it for free if you send all delta logs
Yes, for free, like free beer.
to openlog.org ??. You are allowed to modify it if the result passes the regression test and if openlog.org is down for more then 3 months ??
Actually this 180 day period is a fair rule but it still does not make Bitkeeper Free Software. If they would instead use the Ghostscript strategy it would be okay (after a year).
Ciao,
Werner
[1] If you don't like the gratis version of CVS my company would be glad to offer you a customized version with full support - it would be quite an expensive beer, though.