Hello,
I have to raise your attention to the fact that since February, 23 we have a war in Europe.
Latest press releases from FSFE are:
- 2022-03-16 KDE's Okular becomes the world's first eco-certified computer program- 2022-03-15 Germany: 100 days of coalition agreement - hardly one day for Free Software- 2022-03-10 "I Love Free Software Day": Free Software games and a SharePic generator I understand that these news might be important. But it looks really strange to not say a word from FSFE (Free Software Foundation _Europe_) about the war in Europe.
Yes, FSFE is not a polictical organisation. But what happens now is beyond any politics. This is a full-scale war which happens now and here, in Europe.
I feel that FSFE MUST issue an official statement about the war and actions of Russia.
I do not know how free software activists and organizations can contribute to the peace in a more meaningful way than by issuing statements.
But I believe that the statement shall be made as a bare minimum and it shall be crystal clear.
Silence is not an option.
It is time to write something against this war and also explain again the various reasons why FOSS software cannot be blocked for a country https://thenewstack.io/where-does-open-source-fit-into-russias-war-with-ukra... FOSS is giving freedom in Russia where there are more restrictions by the government and how many FOSS ukraine contributors are impacted about this "special invasion" https://www.businessinsider.com/developers-help-ukrainian-family-of-key-pyth...
Indeed FSFE is not political but it is a foundation that involve europeans and this war involve all of us for various and different reasons.
PS: to get updated about the situation I am using https://www.reddit.com/live/18hnzysb1elcs
Daniele Scasciafratte - OpenSource MultiVersal Guy daniele.tech https://daniele.tech - @Mte90Net https://twitter.com/Mte90net - GitHub https://github.com/Mte90 - Italian Linux Society council member http://www.ils.org/ - Mozillian https://people.mozilla.org/p/Mte90 Mozilla Reps, Mozilla TechSpeakers, WordPress Core Contributor https://profiles.wordpress.org/mte90, FSFE member https://fsfe.org/, LibreItalia member http://www.libreitalia.it/, Wikimedia Italia member https://www.wikimedia.it/ and LUG Rieti founder http://lugrieti.linux.it/. Il 17/03/22 10:13, Vitaly Repin ha scritto:
Hello,
I have to raise your attention to the fact that since February, 23 we have a war in Europe.
Latest press releases from FSFE are:
- 2022-03-16 KDE's Okular becomes the world's first eco-certified computer program
- 2022-03-15 Germany: 100 days of coalition agreement - hardly one day for Free Software
- 2022-03-10 "I Love Free Software Day": Free Software games and a SharePic generator
I understand that these news might be important. But it looks really strange to not say a word from FSFE (Free Software Foundation _Europe_) about the war in Europe.
Yes, FSFE is not a polictical organisation. But what happens now is beyond any politics. This is a full-scale war which happens now and here, in Europe.
I feel that FSFE MUST issue an official statement about the war and actions of Russia.
I do not know how free software activists and organizations can contribute to the peace in a more meaningful way than by issuing statements.
But I believe that the statement shall be made as a bare minimum and it shall be crystal clear.
Silence is not an option.
-- WBR & WBW, Vitaly
Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other: https://fsfe.org/about/codeofconduct
I don't mean to derail the discussion, but something simple everyone can do, right now, is use the Snowflake addon in their browser (and yes, it's Free Software):
https://snowflake.torproject.org/
On 17/03/2022 10.13, Vitaly Repin wrote:
Hello,
I have to raise your attention to the fact that since February, 23 we have a war in Europe.
Latest press releases from FSFE are:
- 2022-03-16 KDE's Okular becomes the world's first eco-certified
computer program
- 2022-03-15 Germany: 100 days of coalition agreement - hardly one day
for Free Software
- 2022-03-10 "I Love Free Software Day": Free Software games and a
SharePic generator
I understand that these news might be important. But it looks really strange to not say a word from FSFE (Free Software Foundation _Europe_) about the war in Europe.
Yes, FSFE is not a polictical organisation. But what happens now is beyond any politics. This is a full-scale war which happens now and here, in Europe.
I feel that FSFE MUST issue an official statement about the war and actions of Russia.
I do not know how free software activists and organizations can contribute to the peace in a more meaningful way than by issuing statements.
But I believe that the statement shall be made as a bare minimum and it shall be crystal clear.
Silence is not an option.
-- WBR & WBW, Vitaly
Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
This mailing list is covered by the FSFE's Code of Conduct. All participants are kindly asked to be excellent to each other: https://fsfe.org/about/codeofconduct
On Thursday, 17 March 2022 10:13:28 CET Vitaly Repin wrote:
Yes, FSFE is not a polictical organisation. But what happens now is beyond any politics. This is a full-scale war which happens now and here, in Europe.
I feel that FSFE MUST issue an official statement about the war and actions of Russia.
I do not know how free software activists and organizations can contribute to the peace in a more meaningful way than by issuing statements.
But I believe that the statement shall be made as a bare minimum and it shall be crystal clear.
Silence is not an option.
I agree. I don't think it is in any way controversial to say that we as human beings condemn this war of aggression against the people and sovereign nation of Ukraine. And that is a mild statement, in case anyone thinks that it is too "political".
In responding to another message just now, I happened to be on the Open Source Initiative's site looking at things and saw their "response":
"Open Source responds to the Russia-Ukraine war: First thoughts from the Executive Director"
https://opensource.org/newsletter/OSI-mar-2022
I would be personally disappointed if any official response from the FSFE were as incoherent as that, which seems to have largely focused on whether "open source" software should be subject to restrictions under such circumstances, with any condemnation seeming to be as implicit as to be unnoticeable.
I notice that one contributor to this list started a discussion where Richard Stallman himself noted that he keeps his political views to his own site, not wanting to conflate those with the FSF. One potentially pertinent difference is that the FSFE is inherently European, and the war waged against Ukraine absolutely affects the very fabric of Europe and the very lives of Europeans.
Over the years, I have known and worked with people of many nationalities (including Ukrainians and Russians), as I imagine many others on this list also have done. I think that any form of aggression directed by one nation towards another would appal us all, particularly between European nations, but let it be said that such acts are appalling wherever they may occur on this planet, in case I may be accused of overlooking other ongoing conflicts and aggressions.
Returning to the European dimension, however, recent introspection in many countries including my country of birth, merely serves to demonstrate how fragile our societies are with regard to the corruption and subversion of democracy and how it has been far too easy for those in power or with influence to be bought and to look the other way, as long as the effects serve them and not their own societies. The result has been division, polarisation and resentment towards others. And it has now tragically facilitated the suffering of millions of people.
It is too easy for people to think that other people's problems will not become their own eventually. For some, I am sure that Brexit was an entertaining sideshow with colourful, ridiculous characters making nonsensical decisions with few apparent consequences other than embarrassment. I know US citizens who had to endure years of juvenile "Trump - he so funny" remarks from people unable to see the same poisonous influences within their own country.
But when people warn you of a problem, and when they show you the evidence of that problem, you do not belittle their concerns or explain them away: you believe them. And then you do what you can to make sure that your own society remains robust and tolerant, and that others on this planet may be able to experience the same quality of life as you do.
I am sorry if any of the above did not really need to be said.
Paul
On 3/17/22 19:15, Paul Boddie wrote:
On Thursday, 17 March 2022 10:13:28 CET Vitaly Repin wrote:
Yes, FSFE is not a polictical organisation. But what happens now is beyond any politics. This is a full-scale war which happens now and here, in Europe.
I feel that FSFE MUST issue an official statement about the war and actions of Russia.
I do not know how free software activists and organizations can contribute to the peace in a more meaningful way than by issuing statements.
But I believe that the statement shall be made as a bare minimum and it shall be crystal clear.
Silence is not an option.
I agree. I don't think it is in any way controversial to say that we as human beings condemn this war of aggression against the people and sovereign nation of Ukraine. And that is a mild statement, in case anyone thinks that it is too "political".
In response to Paul and Vitaly:
I am personally horrified and appalled by the Russian attack on Ukraine and the crimes they are currently committing. It is tragic, and it's something we had very much hoped not to see in Europe in our lifetimes. It's destroying Ukraine, it's destroying civil society and the small remains of press freedom in Russia itself - basically dragging down all that's good about Russian in the most stupid nationalism imaginable, and it's threatening all of Europe. It *is* horrifying.
In spite of this personal opinion, I think that responding to this war is a bit outside of FSFE's remit. I'm not even sure it would be possible for it to make a statement on a non-free software related event, even as horrifying as this one, given that free software is the only area the FSFE is really working on.
I actually suppose everyone in the surroundings of the FSFE is as appalled by this war as I outlined above, but as I see it this is simply not what the FSFE does. RMS once stated that there are many people working on other political causes, against war, against torture, for civil rights, and that such struggles can ultimately be more important than free software - but that free software was what HE was fighting for.
I think something similar can be said for the FSFE. In MY view - others may disagree, and that's fair. It's not that we're not all against this war, but *I* think - speaking only for myself - that the FSFE is not the right forum for responding to this.
Except maybe giving all free software-related help & support to the relief effort we could, if anyone has suggestions.
Best Carsten
Hi all,
Am 17.03.22 um 21:38 schrieb Carsten Agger:
In response to Paul and Vitaly:
I am personally horrified and appalled by the Russian attack on Ukraine and the crimes they are currently committing. It is tragic, and it's something we had very much hoped not to see in Europe in our lifetimes. It's destroying Ukraine, it's destroying civil society and the small remains of press freedom in Russia itself - basically dragging down all that's good about Russian in the most stupid nationalism imaginable, and it's threatening all of Europe. It *is* horrifying.
In spite of this personal opinion, I think that responding to this war is a bit outside of FSFE's remit. I'm not even sure it would be possible for it to make a statement on a non-free software related event, even as horrifying as this one, given that free software is the only area the FSFE is really working on.
I beg to differ. If we have a look at FSFE's constitution [0]:
"The distribution of information and the forming of an opinion are done increasingly by digital media, and the trend is to foster the use of those means for a direct citizen participation to de- mocracy. Therefore, a central task of the FSFE is to train proficient citizens in these media, thereby promoting democracy."
Putin directly attacks the idea of a liberal, democratic society. He attacks everything what "Europe" as an idea stands for. And, as FSFE by its constitution is not an "apolitical" nerd club, I think we very well should say something about it.
My personal opinion Michael
Perhaps a statement about this pending legislation would be relevant and on topic for FSFE:
https://www.coincenter.org/new-crypto-sanctions-bill-targets-publishing-code...
On Friday, 18 March 2022 10:18:06 CET fsfe@centromere.net wrote:
Perhaps a statement about this pending legislation would be relevant and on topic for FSFE:
https://www.coincenter.org/new-crypto-sanctions-bill-targets-publishing-code -facilitating-transactions/
A statement about US legislation targeting cryptocurrency exchanges that allegedly facilitate sanctions evasion? I might be upset about any supposed threat to Free Software developers who inadvertently find their code being used to facilitate cryptocurrency transactions, but then the people running that Web site are...
"...the leading non-profit research and advocacy center focused on the public policy issues facing cryptocurrency and decentralized computing technologies like Bitcoin and Ethereum."
Based in Washington DC, no less, meaning that they are full-on lobbyists for that industry. And I find it hard to sympathise with that industry, personally. Claims that "crypto" would be useless for criminal transactions don't exactly line up with the experience of anyone receiving the average scam/spam mail trying to extort money out of them.
And the idea that criminals wouldn't use Bitcoin - for instance - because "all the money can be traced" deliberately neglect that just because there's a wallet doesn't mean everybody knows whose wallet it is. (It reminds me of the debate about what kind of identity guarantees OpenID could give, but maybe that isn't a perfect analogy.)
Free Software developers definitely need protection from bad law, but the "crypto" business does not deserve our sympathy. It promotes wasteful and ruinous use of technology (good luck getting a graphics card) and needless energy consumption, driving climate change to stimulate asset price bubbles. Useful idiots for this industry write outrageously disingenous articles like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/feb/09/can-bitcoin-be-sustainabl...
And it also promotes pervasive levels of fraudulent activity that burdens our infrastructure and targets the vulnerable. Here is an article just from today's news:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/mar/18/accc-takes-meta-to-court-...
The confluence of Facebook and "crypto": two awful tastes that couldn't possibly be any worse until they are brought together. Interestingly, this legislation was mentioned yesterday on Electoral Vote:
https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2022/Senate/Maps/Mar17.html#item-5
In case you might be wondering, the author there is Andrew Tanenbaum whose reputation in computer science is well established. And he isn't wrong about how people have been rather too easily convinced that "crypto" offers a solution to problems that could otherwise be easily fixed if people genuinely cared about things like poverty and opportunity.
Paul
On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:41:44 +0100 Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Friday, 18 March 2022 10:18:06 CET fsfe@centromere.net wrote:
Perhaps a statement about this pending legislation would be relevant and on topic for FSFE:
https://www.coincenter.org/new-crypto-sanctions-bill-targets-publishing-code -facilitating-transactions/
A statement about US legislation targeting cryptocurrency exchanges that allegedly facilitate sanctions evasion?
My understanding is that the legislation is going to attack node operators -- i.e. users of free/open source software.
My intent is to draw attention to the fact that code is speech, and any effort to stop people from writing and distributing code is an attack on free speech itself.
Free Software developers definitely need protection from bad law, but the "crypto" business does not deserve our sympathy.
If you don't stand up for the worst of society, don't expect others to stand up for you.
In case you might be wondering, the author there is Andrew Tanenbaum whose reputation in computer science is well established. And he isn't wrong about how people have been rather too easily convinced that "crypto" offers a solution to problems that could otherwise be easily fixed if people genuinely cared about things like poverty and opportunity.
I will not deny that some people are motivated by greed and use virtual currency to get rich quick. Nor will I deny that some people think "blockchain" is a magical data structure that can solve all the worlds problems. I don't think those facts are relevant, because my focus remains on free speech, even the speech of those with whom I disagree.
On Friday, 18 March 2022 17:04:27 CET fsfe@centromere.net wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:41:44 +0100 Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Friday, 18 March 2022 10:18:06 CET fsfe@centromere.net wrote:
Perhaps a statement about this pending legislation would be relevant and on topic for FSFE:
https://www.coincenter.org/new-crypto-sanctions-bill-targets-publishing-%3E > > code -facilitating-transactions/
A statement about US legislation targeting cryptocurrency exchanges that allegedly facilitate sanctions evasion?
My understanding is that the legislation is going to attack node operators -- i.e. users of free/open source software.
Alright, but this is US legislation. So, what can the FSFE do about it? Is it more important that the FSFE make a statement about this than, say, the war on Ukraine which may actually affect FSFE members directly?
My intent is to draw attention to the fact that code is speech, and any effort to stop people from writing and distributing code is an attack on free speech itself.
Is it stopping people from writing and distributing code, though? If the legislation is as draconian as these lobbyists suggest, Free Software developers would be one of many, many affected interests. For a start, some very big corporations would be on the hook for facilitating "crypto" transactions. Are the likes of IBM, Dell, HP, Microsoft worried?
I think that if I were American, wrote some fairly generic code, and then unbeknown to me it ended up running a "crypto" exchange and I were hauled into court to account for my "crimes", the whole thing would overturn the basic legal framework of that nation. If the software were "cryptoexchange in a box", things might be slightly different but you can probably go to jail just for writing malware today.
Obviously, malware is rather different in fundamental character from something which might pass as a general trading or exchange platform, which would make pursuing developers a lot more complicated in the latter case. However, you can bet that there is an entire, well-established industry around financial services that would be at risk from such a law and very motivated to see it fail.
Free Software developers definitely need protection from bad law, but the "crypto" business does not deserve our sympathy.
If you don't stand up for the worst of society, don't expect others to stand up for you.
Well, I will stand up for basic freedoms, certainly. But I am not about to be cajoled into propping up the activities of "the worst of society", or wherever the "crypto" business sits in those rankings, on the say-so of some Washington lobbyists. And again, they are Washington lobbyists, even though I concede that what happens "over there" could also happen "over here".
Then again, I think that a lot more needs to be done with regard to financial transparency and tackling fraud and corruption, and I imagine that sooner or later the "crypto" exchanges will receive even more scrutiny than they already do. Although people will protest restrictions on their supposed freedoms, I will observe that some of these people have not particularly noble motivations for resisting further regulation and the curtailment of their activities.
In case you might be wondering, the author there is Andrew Tanenbaum whose reputation in computer science is well established. And he isn't wrong about how people have been rather too easily convinced that "crypto" offers a solution to problems that could otherwise be easily fixed if people genuinely cared about things like poverty and opportunity.
I will not deny that some people are motivated by greed and use virtual currency to get rich quick. Nor will I deny that some people think "blockchain" is a magical data structure that can solve all the worlds problems. I don't think those facts are relevant, because my focus remains on free speech, even the speech of those with whom I disagree.
Free speech is not limitless, though, even though there are swathes of the electorate in the US and other places who fail to recognise this. People do actually have a right to be protected from harm, and that necessarily restricts the capacity of other people to harm them. Don't bother quoting Voltaire on this, as is so often done: many readers of this list are likely to be living in countries where there is no "absolute" free speech and justifiably so.
Anyway, here is the act itself:
https://www.menendez.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ digital_asset_sanctions_compliance_enhancement_act_of_2022.pdf
Not being a lawyer, maybe I am not reading the act correctly, but "open-source software" is mentioned as a mere artefact alongside "any communication protocol" and other things in the context of the deliberate acts of individuals conducting sanctions-busting distributed finance operations. If you want to read that in the broadest possible (and probably nonsensical) way, that would be one huge dragnet incriminating quite a few people.
To be honest, having spent some time looking into this, it all feels like an opportunity for a bunch of "crypto" profiteers to get others to defend their turf in some kind of moral panic: a predictably juvenile "government is coming to get you" ruse. So, now I would actually be even happier to no longer have them wasting everybody else's time.
Paul