Hello, I would like to know if there's some GPL's alternative to java. We work with french university and they wan to develop a software under java but we have this problem that java is not GPL, is there nice equivalent to java??
thanks
julien Ottavi
Hello Julien!
julien@apo33.org schrieb:
Hello, I would like to know if there's some GPL's alternative to java. We work with french university and they wan to develop a software under java but we have this problem that java is not GPL, is there nice equivalent to java??
You have to distinguish between Java and the Java VM. Java is an object oriented language and has no licence attached. Ok the term Java is a trademark, but that's just a name.
So your problems are Sun's implementations of the Java VM and the Java libraries.
For these problems the Free Software community is working hard to provide free implementations of the VM and the libraries.
An interesting document is the Debian GNU/Linux Java FAQ: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-java-faq/
Some time ago I startet a progect to collect information and maybe create a Free Java Environment. You can find an initial draft of my document hier: http://www.jugbz.org/free-java.html
Happy hacking! Patrick
On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 12:10:53PM +0200, Patrick Ohnewein wrote:
julien@apo33.org schrieb:
I would like to know if there's some GPL's alternative to java. We work with french university and they wan to develop a software under java but we have this problem that java is not GPL, is there nice equivalent to java??
Patrik has done a nice answer, let me add some hints to it.
You have to distinguish between Java and the Java VM. Java is an object oriented language and has no licence attached. Ok the term Java is a trademark, but that's just a name.
Still Suns uses other measures to control the language. An indication is the disturbing answer from the Debian Java FAQ: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-java-faq/ch5.html#s-license-concern... 5.3.1.5 Why is (some) free software not implementing Java2?
Sun has made public statements in connection with their legal strategy in the Sun-Microsoft lawsuit that indicate that the company considers the published specifications of Java2 to be intellectual property that can not legally be used by persons involved in efforts to create Java2 clean-room implementations. For this reason, some open source projects have decided to not implement Java2 any time soon. One example is Kaffe. Some projects (like the Japhar/Classpath project) have decided to challenge Sun's legal position and are going ahead with Java2.
The bad "IP" word actually translates to "software patents", "copyrights" with Digital Restriction Management and Trademarks.
So your problems are Sun's implementations of the Java VM and the Java libraries.
In face of the problem above, it is a second order problem.
For these problems the Free Software community is working hard to provide free implementations of the VM and the libraries.
Unless a) Sun opens up the specification to Java and its process b) Complete competitive Free Software toolchains for Java get available
I recommend to avoid Java if possible.
There are nice Free Software Alternatives, I suggest Python: www.python.org
Bernhard
An interesting document is the Debian GNU/Linux Java FAQ: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-java-faq/
Some time ago I startet a progect to collect information and maybe create a Free Java Environment. You can find an initial draft of my document hier: http://www.jugbz.org/free-java.html
Hi Thanks you for your help, I will check now how this project go forward... I'm agree to not use java but the mentality of people and also infrastructure as university are difficult to change. It change but it takes times!!!!
best
julien
On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 12:10:53PM +0200, Patrick Ohnewein wrote:
julien@apo33.org schrieb:
I would like to know if there's some GPL's alternative to java. We work with french university and they wan to develop a software under java but we have this problem that java is not GPL, is there nice equivalent to java??
Patrik has done a nice answer, let me add some hints to it.
You have to distinguish between Java and the Java VM. Java is an object oriented language and has no licence attached. Ok the term Java is a trademark, but that's just a name.
Still Suns uses other measures to control the language. An indication is the disturbing answer from the Debian Java FAQ: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-java-faq/ch5.html#s-license-concern... 5.3.1.5 Why is (some) free software not implementing Java2?
Sun has made public statements in connection with their legal strategy in the Sun-Microsoft lawsuit that indicate that the company considers the published specifications of Java2 to be intellectual property that can not legally be used by persons involved in efforts to create Java2 clean-room implementations. For this reason, some open source projects have decided to not implement Java2 any time soon. One example is Kaffe. Some projects (like the Japhar/Classpath project) have decided to challenge Sun's legal position and are going ahead with Java2.
The bad "IP" word actually translates to "software patents", "copyrights" with Digital Restriction Management and Trademarks.
So your problems are Sun's implementations of the Java VM and the Java libraries.
In face of the problem above, it is a second order problem.
For these problems the Free Software community is working hard to provide free implementations of the VM and the libraries.
Unless a) Sun opens up the specification to Java and its process b) Complete competitive Free Software toolchains for Java get available
I recommend to avoid Java if possible.
There are nice Free Software Alternatives, I suggest Python: www.python.org
Bernhard
An interesting document is the Debian GNU/Linux Java FAQ: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-java-faq/
Some time ago I startet a progect to collect information and maybe create a Free Java Environment. You can find an initial draft of my document hier: http://www.jugbz.org/free-java.htm
l
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Am Donnerstag, dem 01. Apr 2004 schrieb julien:
Thanks you for your help, I will check now how this project go forward... I'm agree to not use java but the mentality of people and also infrastructure as university are difficult to change. It change but it takes times!!!!
Here is another text you might be interested in: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
Several people wrote to discussion@fsfeurope.org:
[Java is a trap; we should avoid it; alternatives?]
Many of the developers who work on "escaping the Java trap" met at this year's FOSDEM in Brussels. Mark Wielaard and I gave a talk, describing the motivation and current state of GNU Classpath and the various free VMs [1]. The slides are not very technical, but might serve as an overview for newcomers. IMHO, the "motivation" section might be particularly relevant to what has been said so far on the discussion@fsfeurope.org mailing list.
There were also several other, more technical talks about the state and some specifics of particular VMs, such as gcj or SableVM. For an overview to all talks, please have a look at [2].
GNU Classpath [3] is really appreciating any help. So, if anyone wants to help out, please contact classpath@gnu.org, or write directly to Mark Wielaard mark@klomp.org, who maintains the project.
[1] http://www.dandelis.ch/people/brawer/articles/classpathFeb2004/ [2] http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/events/fosdem04.html [3] http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/
Best regards,
-- Sascha
Sascha Brawer, brawer@dandelis.ch, http://www.dandelis.ch/people/brawer/