From: Bernhard Reiter bernhard@intevation.de
- Don't trust Press releases that are set up by enemies (FhG in this cas=
e)
I don't want to go into details, but from a legal point of view GMD is not jet FhG!
The webpages of GMD have different information: http://www.gmd.de/de/presse-archiv/pressekonferenz.html | Nun sind auch alle juristischen Schritte zur Integration | der GMD in die Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft vollzogen.
Did you ever listen to the radio station of an occupied country?
Right! At the moment we call "GMB Informationstechnik e.V. & Co. KG." Nevertheless, we remain a non-profit organisation and we are not part of Fraunhofer! =20 The change to the new name has become valid with 20.7.2001 with a publish=
ing
in "Bonner Generalanzeiger" (Page 20). As I am replying to a mail from you send at 16.7.2001, you see, that your statements are wrong.
Okay, the Berlios is now (since 6 days) not part of Frauenhofer anymore according to your information. This seems to be a good step.
I said that GMD is not yet Fraunhofer, you say that GMD is no more Fraunhofer.
You seem to know more then I know!
As I am the president of the works-council of GMD-Berlin and constantly fighting during the last two years against this senseless forced fusion this is curious....
But hey! If you really know more than I do, why then didn't you help us to support this fight against the FhG GMD fusion?
Nobody in the (German) community trusts BERLIOS, probably due to a gut feelings.
=20
At least all the folks I know and that are quite some.
=20 So I give you the advice to find better friends. People who make statemen=
ts
like this are no help for the movement.
Thanks for downgrading all people that Werner=20 (Vice-President of the FSFE Chapter Germany, in the board of GUUG,=20 main architect of GnuPG) knows in Germany which are involved in Free Softwa= re. As I am also one of these persons I can reassure you that a statements like the one above can be perceived as "unfair accusations".
Did I mention your name? Did Werner mention your name? I am sure that not!
There are several other reasons why is distrust of BerliOS in the Free Software community in Germany. We (the FSFE) did not create it. We merely point it out to you.
To avoid future confusion like in the paragraph above: Are you speaking as Vice President of FSFE or are you speaking as Bernhard Reiter? I don't like to confuse personal statements with official statements from organisations.... and I am sure that the existence of FSFE gives positive impulses to the free-software/open-source community in Europe!
... Does this mean that you personally have problems when people are fighting for free-software/open-source?
... or is it simply that some animals are more equal than others?
I am a bit confused now.... We had a very positive talk at CeBIT this year and you told us that we should co-operate. You pointed out, that BerliOS gives a positive impulse to the free-software/open-source community.
It seems that something happened during the last few months. As you told us that FSFE would support BerliOS why didn't you contact us meanwhile? If there really are problems, we already could have done something against these problems.
Free Software developers usually have a sixth sense for some of the mistakes BerliOS is making.
So it seems that you personally feel with your sixt sense that there are misterious mistakes. Please tell us more about these misterious mistakes!
Jörg
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling@fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix
Jörg,
rereading my already written angry answer to your mail quoted below I have realised that there were several missunderstandings. So I deleted a lot of it and try to get back to the positive things.
I welcome the dialog with you and BerliOS.
(I have left in the some explainations which are not meant to be offensive. If you think some more points need clarification, I can address them.)
On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:39:05PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:
From: Bernhard Reiter bernhard@intevation.de
The webpages of GMD have different information: http://www.gmd.de/de/presse-archiv/pressekonferenz.html | Nun sind auch alle juristischen Schritte zur Integration | der GMD in die Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft vollzogen.
Did you ever listen to the radio station of an occupied country?
This situation of the Frauenhofer and GMD creates some uncertainty, a public statement from BerliOS might help. It is hard for outsiders to understand the situation.
[ Missunderstanding one ]
Right! At the moment we call "GMB Informationstechnik e.V. & Co. KG."
^^^
Nevertheless, we remain a non-profit organisation and we are not part of Fraunhofer! =20 The change to the new name has become valid with 20.7.2001 with a publish=
ing
in "Bonner Generalanzeiger" (Page 20). As I am replying to a mail from you send at 16.7.2001, you see, that your statements are wrong.
Okay, the Berlios is now (since 6 days) not part of Frauenhofer anymore according to your information.
I said that GMD is not yet Fraunhofer, you say that GMD is no more Fraunhofer. You seem to know more then I know!
Got thrown off by your typo and the rest of the paragraph (see above) and somehow believed that BerliOS might be seperated from GMD and had a new name. Just tried to rephrase what I have understood. Can you clarify the legal situation of the GMD then? I obviously did not understand it.
[ Misstunderstanding two ]
Did I mention your name?
I was refering to your statement implying that Werner or any other person saying: "a group of free software developers does not trust BerliOS" is not helping the movement.
As I am also a person who thinks that a lot of Free Software Developers in Germany to not fully trust BerliOS, your statement said something about me. I am just explaining to you why your statement can be interpreted in an offensive way.
[ Back to constructive talk ]
We had a very positive talk at CeBIT this year and you told us that we should co-operate. You pointed out, that BerliOS gives a positive impulse to the free-software/open-source community.
It does in principle and we should co-operate. In my other mail (written and mailed before I did get to read this one) I have had briefly mentioned two points which I perceive as problems.
As you told us that FSFE would support BerliOS why didn't you contact us meanwhile? If there really are problems, we already could have done something against these problems.
Some of them were already pointed out in personal communication but I (personally) did not get the impression (then) that they were taken seriously enough.
Your appearance in this list shows that we can establish communication. This is positive.
Bernhard
This is getting way to personal, take it of the discussion list. This is _not_ constructive and I ask you to stop polluting my inbox.
thx,
Wim wdesmet@yucom.be
Joerg Schilling said:
From: Bernhard Reiter bernhard@intevation.de
- Don't trust Press releases that are set up by enemies (FhG in this
cas=
e)
I don't want to go into details, but from a legal point of view GMD is not jet FhG!
The webpages of GMD have different information: http://www.gmd.de/de/presse-archiv/pressekonferenz.html | Nun sind auch alle juristischen Schritte zur Integration | der GMD in die Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft vollzogen.
Did you ever listen to the radio station of an occupied country?
Right! At the moment we call "GMB Informationstechnik e.V. & Co. KG." Nevertheless, we remain a non-profit organisation and we are not part
of
Fraunhofer! =20 The change to the new name has become valid with 20.7.2001 with a
publish=
ing
in "Bonner Generalanzeiger" (Page 20). As I am replying to a mail from you send at 16.7.2001, you see, that your statements are wrong.
Okay, the Berlios is now (since 6 days) not part of Frauenhofer anymore according to your information. This seems to be a good step.
I said that GMD is not yet Fraunhofer, you say that GMD is no more
Fraunhofer.
You seem to know more then I know!
As I am the president of the works-council of GMD-Berlin and constantly
fighting
during the last two years against this senseless forced fusion this is
curious....
But hey! If you really know more than I do, why then didn't you help us to
support
this fight against the FhG GMD fusion?
Nobody in the (German) community trusts BERLIOS, probably due to a
gut
feelings.
=20
At least all the folks I know and that are quite some.
=20 So I give you the advice to find better friends. People who make
statemen=
ts
like this are no help for the movement.
Thanks for downgrading all people that Werner=20 (Vice-President of the FSFE Chapter Germany, in the board of GUUG,=20 main architect of GnuPG) knows in Germany which are involved in Free
Softwa=
re. As I am also one of these persons I can reassure you that a statements like the one above can be perceived as "unfair accusations".
Did I mention your name? Did Werner mention your name? I am sure that not!
There are several other reasons why is distrust of BerliOS in the Free Software community in Germany. We (the FSFE) did not create it. We merely point it out to you.
To avoid future confusion like in the paragraph above: Are you speaking as Vice President of FSFE or are you speaking as Bernhard Reiter? I don't like to confuse personal statements with official statements from organisations.... and I am sure that the existence of FSFE gives positive impulses to the free-software/open-source community in Europe!
... Does this mean that you personally have problems when people are fighting for free-software/open-source?
... or is it simply that some animals are more equal than others?
I am a bit confused now.... We had a very positive talk at CeBIT this year and you told us that we should co-operate. You pointed out, that BerliOS gives a positive impulse to the free-software/open-source
community.
It seems that something happened during the last few months. As you told us that FSFE would support BerliOS why didn't you contact us meanwhile? If there really are problems, we already could have done something against these problems.
Free Software developers usually have a sixth sense for some of the mistakes BerliOS is making.
So it seems that you personally feel with your sixt sense that there are
misterious
mistakes. Please tell us more about these misterious mistakes!
Jörg
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353
Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling@fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling
ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix
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