Hi Georg and all,
Georg C. F. Greve wrote on Mar 23, 2001 at 02:04PM +0100:
It does show one thing, though. We apparently have a confusion on this list about what a logo is. A logo is normally text-based and non-graphical. The only logo I can think of right now that is graphical is the one of Apple.
I don't agree with you. I cannot think of any company / organisation logo that has text _only_. They all have at least shape and color. Think Coca-Cola, IBM, Mattel, Canon, ... Coca-Cola is also a nice example where the color and shape is the actual logo (e.g. the Coca-Cola ribbon is trademarked). Many companies use both: graphical logo plus company name written in a special font. Some of the most well-known logos are mainly graphical or graphics-only: Nike, Adidas, Xerox, SGI (old logo), Krupp, Mercedes, Ferrari, wüstenrot, Telekom AG, Sparkasse (the latter three are probably not so well-known outside Germany;-), ...
On the other hand, product logos usually are text-based with color and shape. Mattel's selection of fashion dolls makes a good example ("Songbird Barbie", "Songbird Teresa" and so on). Ferrero's and and Mars' selection of sweets ("Kinder Schokolade", "Kinder Überraschung", "Milky Way" chocolate bar or nut cream) are further examples: the name is important to identify the product, and the writing is used to clarify the relationship with the other products in the line. But for the FSFE logo I would rather look at company and organisation logos, not product logos.
This is a list of sponsors of a local school project in Essen, Germany. You might consider it a random collection of company logos in the present context:
http://www.europa-schulen.essen.de/deu/foerderer.html
non-graphical. The only logo I can think of right now that is graphical is the one of Apple. And that is how simple it would have to be. Also the association must be clear... I don't see how we could produce something THAT understandable by everyone for the FSFE.
An apple is an obvious choice for Apple. But it is only well-known and understandable because Apple has been promoting themselves for a long time and with a large marketing budget. If Apple was still a small company the logo would not be known, and it could as well stand for a grocery chain. I mean, we also need a good logo but no matter how good it is, it will not be well-known at the beginning. It is in our hands to make it as understandable as Apple's.
Adding a "Europe" to the FSF logo would make it significantly bigger (I think it's very much at the verge of being too big already) and also it would be too much text to read. It probably should not be more text than "FSF Europe" - since "Software" and "Foundation" are relatively long words.
Agreed. _If_ we use a text-based logo it should have "FSF Europe" only, not the full name.
But IMO the logo should not be purely text based, at leat not purely latin letters. It poses the question: Why latin writing, not kyrillic or greek? Why FSF Europe and not FSS Europa (Freie Software Stiftung Europa), for instance? I vote for a graphical logo with maybe additional text but if we create a text-only logo IMO we should include all three types of writing.
In my opinion the FSFE logo needs to be different from a company logo. A company's name is well-defined (not language dependent) and is the first "brand name" the company needs to promote. Therefore, some (not all) companies use their specially written name as a logo. Also, text-based logos are much easier to create in series. However, the most important thing FSFE wants to promote is free software, not the name "Free Software Foundation Europe", specializing to English language, latin letters. Of course, we don't want to be a nameless organisation. I just mean that the logo should focus on the message FSFE wants to promote, not the name itself.
Consider the cross for Christianiti, for example. This symbol (logos are a modern invention) is recognized everywhere, it is simple, it refers to an important aspect of the religion (it is not just a pretty, random symbol) and you refer to the religion it represents in _your_ language. Other "logos" that come to my mind are the rune and pigeon for the peace movement or the flags for the various countries.
Also, letters don't scale as well as graphics. If the letters are sufficiently small you cannot read them any more. The only thing you can see is their shape. This works with very unusual shapes and strong colors (think Coca-Cola) and with graphical logos (Nike, Adidas, Apple), but letters that are primarly meant for reading need a minimum size.
Best wishes,
Anja