Discussion September 2018

discussion@lists.fsfe.org

37 participants
22 discussions

Fwd: Call to Action: Save Free Software this September
by Michael Kesper 10 Sep '18

10 Sep '18

Dear list members, time is running up for this campaign, please participate and spread the message! Best Michael > In the context of our https://savecodeshare.eu/ campaign we just > published this call to action: > > We would be happy if you spread this message to your networks: https: > //fsfe.org/news/2018/news-20180905-02.de.html > > Free Software is at risk! On the 12th of September the EU is getting > ready to vote on a "Copyright Reform" package, which undermines the > foundations upon which Free Software is built. The proposed Article > 13 of the EU Copyright Directive targets every online service that > allows its users to upload and share content with each other, > including code hosting platforms. > > Let's call upon European policy makers to delete the threat posed > against Free Software in the Copyright Directive. > > The widespread reuse of Free Software is a foundation of the > Internet, as code can be used, studied, shared and improved by each > user. It would be wrong to take this freedom for granted. Since most > of the internet medium is compiled and reused as Free Software, the > ruling would dismantle the media ecosystem. > > We are getting ready for the EU's vote on a "Copyright Reform" > package, in order to remove a section of its terms and conditions > that looks to hamper Free Software development and code-sharing. > Every Internet user, who shares information, media, and code with the > public, has been targeted in the proposed directive. The idea in > Article 13 is that Free Software is a cause for copyright violations > and that, therefore, upload-filters should be created by internet > platforms. > > There are even a variety of types of governmental organisations, > facilitated and powered by Free Software. In fact, on just one of the > major code hosting platforms, over 128 government organisations from > over 17 European governments have, in total, licensed 4594 instances > of Free Software on code-hosting platforms, at the time of writing. > [1] They are, as follows: Open Government initiatives, Cutural > heritage directories, Ecology research departments and agencies, > Digitalisation projects, Emergency Services, Information Systems, > Election Services, Transport networks, Education institutions, Energy > services, Mapping and Geographical research institutes, Statistical > bureaus, Business departments, Law courts, Security groups, and > Departments of Finance. > > So, for those inside the EU, now's the time to do your bit and to > communicate with an MEP, who represents your country, in order to > notify your support for Free Software in the face of Article 13 in > the Copyright Directive. > > Do that at http://saveyourinternet.eu, where there are tips on who > and how to address and send your message. When you're ready, you can > even use a tool [2], created by EDRi and Open Media, to directly call > and e-mail your MEP. > > Let's call upon European policy makers to delete the threat posed > against Free and Open Source Software in the Copyright Directive. > > Best regards, > Alex > > > [1] https://government.github.com/community/ > [2] https://www.liberties.eu/en/news/copyright-campaign-call-your-mep > /14733

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temporary moderation of this list
by Florian Snow 08 Sep '18

08 Sep '18

Dear list subscribers, Many mails in the recent discussions do not add new arguments, but rather fuel a heated meta-discussion about who said what with which intention. Over the course of just one day, the CARE team was alerted to several issues and more and more people, both on the list and in private messages, raised their voices asking to avoid what they see as a debate that is unproductive and unsuited for a mailing list. To hopefully help calm down the situation, the list moderation team decided to set this list on moderation from now until next Tuesday. Every message that is on-topic, written in an appropriate tone, and in line with our CoC will be delivered to the list, no matter the opinion. We apologize for any potential delays in message delivery due to moderation. Thank you very much and looking forward to many fruitful and friendly discussions. Happy hacking! Florian for the moderators

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Re: to git or not to git
by Timothy Pearson 07 Sep '18

07 Sep '18

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 09/07/2018 08:41 AM, evaggelos balaskas wrote: > Without derailing too much this wonderful discussion, I would like to make a comment on lost commits/code. > > IMHO git is not a backup solution, its a version control system. sometimes we forgot this simple but important tiny thing so freq commits (even on a local cloned repo or branch) is really useful and copy/merge/rebase/rewrite/whatever when ready to master. Well said. Along those lines, for those that would rather not use the proprietary system that is GitHub, we've had good luck over the years with SCM manager [1]. It's BSD licensed but quite polished and very stable, and simple enough to get going on a VPS or similar. Also has native git / hg/ subversion support so you don't have to use one SCM only. Back the VPS up to another location on schedule, and data loss / corruption should be mitigated. [1] https://www.scm-manager.org/ - -- Timothy Pearson Raptor Engineering +1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line) +1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard) https://www.raptorengineering.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJbksFnAAoJEK+E3vEXDOFbbgoIAJZ8H7z2kvutWY8D9G32M0Xk akmkt+FeLenb/GKnh3qAnRok3eZ40/Ob7k4Nbzcd2C6UDSggoKZIMszjkqUbffXv ppR7/zAnNVAMkEFa6liZKbu5m9UhxqxStHSS315DaaJtRzgQV5mpKsizjyKdrHm7 mhYXhnMdKy8Q8xxiWzP2PPZWlHqFQzsj7nQWmqY6F838JaRWy/c6iElcLmwSwh52 UAFkTpQ33BfVrKx4v0po9iM10QrNUQvp8ciXRPAWKw/ChucqO8m1eEqhYy2cCT/z QDFEUAThlgfJC3ndnFKPTAw0n9H0B+KlsfNUiF0XnV0jgGXZENVjAn33v4E4hLo= =+lm3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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supporting our fellowship representative
by lukerogers＠tutanota.com 07 Sep '18

07 Sep '18

What I'm reading in this mailing list is scary I never saw an association cancel the elections. Is that legal? I want to give my full support to Daniel Pocock and commend him for his tenacity in the pursuit of transparency and truth. It looks like the GA is full of yes-men but Pocock is the fiercely independent advocate that us fellows need. If somebody isn't happy about the job Pocock does then instead of making insults and character assassinations, run for election against him. But you are all afraid Pocock or somebody else like him would be voted again by the silent majority, you abolished the elections. How pathetic you all are. No more elections? My fellowship contribution isn't going to FSFE next year, give the money to a local group where everything is done by volunteers and not careerists in Berlin. The FSFE transparency pages are hilarious. FSFE chose the transparency checklist from Transparency International because it lets them have transparency credentials but their checklist doesn't ask to publish the salaries like the FSF and other groups. Top marks to Pocock for exposing that in his thread on transparency. Keep it up.

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Prototpye Fund - Public Money for public code
by Matthias Kirschner 07 Sep '18

07 Sep '18

Hello everybody, IIRC there was no information yet on the list about the Prototype Fund. Today I saw that parts of their website are also available in English now. I would like to know what you think about the programme and if you know of similar programmes from other countries in Europe. Related to our Public Money Public Code campaign the *Prototype Fund* https://prototypefund.de/en/ is a programme to support software developers living in Germany to create a prototype of their ideas. It is funded by public money of the German government. You can receive 47.500€ for 6 months, and the result of your work has to be under a Free Software license. Additionally the OKFN provides coaching, consultancy, and networking for people involved in the projects. So the programme covers a first phase of prototyping, in which you hopefully can also develop ideas for sustainable working on your ideas afterwards. Some of the project descriptions are now also available in English <https://prototypefund.de/en/projects/> . For example there is one project to document war crime, the Syrian Archive <https://syrianarchive.org/en/>: The Syrian Archive aims to support human rights investigators, advocates, media reporters, and journalists in their efforts to document human rights violations in Syria and worldwide through developing new open source tools as well as providing a transparent and replicable methodology for collecting, preserving, verifying and investigating visual documentation in conflict areas. I would be interested what you think about the approach of the prototype fund, if you know about similar approaches elsewhere, and also wonder which projects on their list you would consider as good examples to mention when explaining Free Software. Best Regards, Matthias PS: For transparency reasons I want to mention that I was a jury member of the prototype fund, except for the last round. -- Matthias Kirschner - President - Free Software Foundation Europe Schönhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin, Germany | t +49-30-27595290 Registered at Amtsgericht Hamburg, VR 17030 | (fsfe.org/join) Contact (fsfe.org/about/kirschner) - Weblog (k7r.eu/blog.html)

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Urgent Call to Action: Save Free Software this September
by Alexander Sander 06 Sep '18

06 Sep '18

Hello all, In the context of our https://savecodeshare.eu/ campaign we just published this call to action: https://fsfe.org/news/2018/news-20180905-02.html - We would be happy if you spread this message to your networks: Call to Action: Save Free Software this September Free Software is at risk! On the 12th of September the EU is getting ready to vote on a "Copyright Reform" package, which undermines the foundations upon which Free Software is built. The proposed Article 13 of the EU Copyright Directive targets every online service that allows its users to upload and share content with each other, including code hosting platforms. Let's call upon European policy makers to delete the threat posed against Free Software in the Copyright Directive. The widespread reuse of Free Software is a foundation of the Internet, as code can be used, studied, shared and improved by each user. It would be wrong to take this freedom for granted. Since most of the internet medium is compiled and reused as Free Software, the ruling would dismantle the media ecosystem. We are getting ready for the EU's vote on a "Copyright Reform" package, in order to remove a section of its terms and conditions that looks to hamper Free Software development and code-sharing. Every Internet user, who shares information, media, and code with the public, has been targeted in the proposed directive. The idea in Article 13 is that Free Software is a cause for copyright violations and that, therefore, upload-filters should be created by internet platforms. There are even a variety of types of governmental organisations, facilitated and powered by Free Software. In fact, on just one of the major code hosting platforms, over 128 government organisations from over 17 European governments have, in total, licensed 4594 instances of Free Software on code-hosting platforms, at the time of writing. [1] They are, as follows: Open Government initiatives, Cutural heritage directories, Ecology research departments and agencies, Digitalisation projects, Emergency Services, Information Systems, Election Services, Transport networks, Education institutions, Energy services, Mapping and Geographical research institutes, Statistical bureaus, Business departments, Law courts, Security groups, and Departments of Finance. So, for those inside the EU, now's the time to do your bit and to communicate with an MEP, who represents your country, in order to notify your support for Free Software in the face of Article 13 in the Copyright Directive. Do that at https://saveyourinternet.eu, where there are tips on who and how to address and send your message. When you're ready, you can even use a tool [2], created by EDRi and Open Media, to directly call and e-mail your MEP. Let's call upon European policy makers to delete the threat posed against Free and Open Source Software in the Copyright Directive. Best regards, Alex [1] https://government.github.com/community/ [2] https://www.liberties.eu/en/news/copyright-campaign-call-your-mep/14733 -- Alexander Sander - EU Public Policy Programme Manager Free Software Foundation Europe Schönhauser Allee 6/7, 10119 Berlin, Germany | t +49-151 923 472 12 Registered at Amtsgericht Hamburg, VR 17030 | (fsfe.org/join)

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Conference Bits&Trees
by Bernhard E. Reiter 06 Sep '18

06 Sep '18

Hello, there is a conference https://bits-und-baeume.org/en that aims to bring together several approaches for sustainability in the physical and digital world. I've learned about it only a few days before the closing of the CfP and submitted three proposals: a) Talk about "How to improve the world on many topic with limited personal resources" which is a rough translation of Mit wenig Einsatz, bei vielen Themen die Welt verbessern -- Mit System handeln und andere überzeugen b) an 8 minute provocative stand-up about "It is in your best interest to pay for software, services and newspapers!" rough translation of Meine These ist: Es ist in Deinem Interesse für Software, Dienste, Newsticker und Zeitungen zu bezahlen! c) a workshop about We set up Email-Cryptography -- End-to-End with OpenPGP got easier a) and b) are being planned in German, though I could do English as well. As you are English readers, do some of you plan of going there? If more people are interested I could do a translation of my abstracts for a) and b) and send it here. I don't know how the organizers react towards wishes from the audience, what I've heard is that they would like more Free Software people to bring in their experiences. Thought I'd let you know. Best Regards, Bernhard -- FSFE -- Founding Member Support our work for Free Software: blogs.fsfe.org/bernhard https://fsfe.org/donate | contribute

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Let us keep being friendly with each other (aka some words from your list-admins)
by Erik Albers 06 Sep '18

06 Sep '18

Dear all, Exchanging opinions and discussing them in public is very important for our community. Sometimes, discussions can become emotional and sometimes debaters use a too offensive language although, possibly unintentionally. In the last days we have seen some heated debates coming up on this list and individual messages of those discussions have already been brought to the attention of your list-admins. It also came to our attention that some of the more offensive messages were sent from mail accounts that joined this list just recently. The list administration would like to help bring back a good tone and discussion culture by moderating the discussion if necessary and for now we set new subscriptions to the list on moderation. But much more important for our discussion culture will be what you bring into it. A successful method that works for many people is, that if you are upset, then consider to keep your mail as a draft overnight and re-read it before sending it the next day. Also it might help to keep your audience in mind: This list has several hundred subscribers and is archived publicly on the Internet and indexed by search engines. Generally the best advice is to always keep in mind that: The Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) and its community aim to offer a friendly and peaceful environment for every participant at the FSFE's events, online and offline. All participants should at all times feel at ease to do so without fearing any form of attack, reprisal or harassment. We ask everybody to be respectful and considerate towards each other, especially when attempting to provide constructive criticism. Thank you very much and looking forward to many fruitful and friendly discussions, Erik for the list-admins -- No one shall ever be forced to use non-free software Erik Albers | Communication & Community Coordinator | FSFE OpenPGP Key-ID: 0x8639DC81 on keys.gnupg.net

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Re: Free Software economics
by Bernhard E. Reiter 04 Sep '18

04 Sep '18

Hi Paul, [deliberately breaking the thread, so this does not get drowned in unrelated stuff, only quoting a bit] Am Freitag 31 August 2018 15:35:21 schrieb Paul Boddie: > Unfortunately, the "for exposure" culture encourages people to overstretch. It is just one out of several motivations to develop Free Software or participate actively in a community. In general I think the good effects of "for exposure" are exaggerated in society, it seems to be a problem of modern social media. ut the "for exposure" argument is overblown in other parts of society as well, it is a general problem of modern social media. Just think about influencers. > In one case in the Python community, someone who had been "all over" every > topic of concern eventually burned out: > > http://jessenoller.com/blog/2015/9/27/a-lot-happens It is sad to read. We can find many examples. When making policies and organisating, we need to keep looking out for a work/volunteer/life balance. Doing this for Free Software is quite similiar to other job or honorary positions. > since this kind of "noble volunteerism" meshes with a popular flavours > of capitalism, such people and the lessons they have for us are readily > forgotten, their misfortune seen as "regrettable" but somehow an acceptable > cost to bring about other people's success. At least not here. We must teach people how to keep the balance, make good choices and we need to make sure that the structure in society allows for people to grow, be happy. Hopefully even catching them, if they stumble and fall. > I mention this particularly because it may help some people to understand > why people become so aggrieved and feel mistreated. It is one reason to become aggieved, there are others as well. However when being in such a state it is more important to watch out for oneself and leave the situation which causes this sort of stress. And while surrounding people maybe empathic, they also need to be clear to draw a line and sometimes to end the situation to protect themselfs and this person in an emotional difficult situation. == Professional offerings for Free Software > There most certainly are professional offerings, yes. But then again, there > are people like Werner whose PGP libraries are being used by billion dollar > corporations as the foundation of their businesses' operational viability, > and yet it apparently took security scares in other cryptographic libraries > and Edward Snowden's remarks to crack open wallets and get things funded at > a more tolerable level. The publications of Edward Snowden were a wakeup call for some. It maybe sad that it sometimes has to make headlines before people take some action. However I believe that the growing numbers of supporters of FSFE also support our mission because they like what we are explaining it to more policy makers and companies why funding better Free Software is in their own best interest (while being better for society as well). > I am arguing against the zero-sum game played by various businesses, > the result of which is a shoal of little fish whose only defence is not to > be big enough to be noticed by the big (proprietary) fish that everybody > else has to deal with. This seems to say that many Free Software businesses could do something in a better way. While I agree that offerings could be better, this would also take customers to be willing to buy those offerings. It is a circle and if we want it to grow, we can act at any situation. (This is why I had started paying for Free Software many years ago.) > From conversations I have had over the years, I sometimes wonder whether > certain companies regard their Free Software competitors as worse enemies > than the proprietary vendors and solutions they should all be doing their > best to defeat. So that game of divide and rule continues, of course. To me it seem natural that the small company offering something similar to yours is often seen as competitor. However there are business associations where the same companies are working together. E.g. the Open Source Business Alliance in Germany. From personal experience I can say that it is a challenge to cooperate with many companies, just size would not get you the contracts. (My company does cooperate as much as we can, this is why I know it is difficult.) Best Regards, Bernhard -- FSFE -- Founding Member Support our work for Free Software: blogs.fsfe.org/bernhard https://fsfe.org/donate | contribute

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Re: terminating memberships responsibly (was: please be excellent to each other (Re: application for FSFE e.V. membership and resignation))
by Bernhard E. Reiter 03 Sep '18

03 Sep '18

Hi Daniel, [while I am quoting from this mail which I understand you have intended to be public, I only quote and respond on the points I believe the public can understand. My aim is to protect you, me and others from writing something in anger that afterwards cannot be retracted from public archives.] Am Dienstag 28 August 2018 22:05:05 schrieb Daniel Pocock: > On 28/08/18 09:27, Bernhard E. Reiter wrote: > > any organisation(+) reserves the right to exclude members that heavily > > obstruct the way it works. There is a point where this has to be done > > just so that people can go seperate ways. > > I would agree with that, but normally that involves a process of > mediation and then a specific communication with the member about it. What I've noticed in the e.V. interaction were that many people gave you feedback and offered help in getting your positions heard and acted upon. I did so on a number of occasions by mail. From what came out of if, I can only conclude that I was not good enough in helping you personally into the group and understand how it works. I'm sorry for this. > The FSFE constitution requires a member be given a reason for exclusion > and an opportunity to appeal. Those processes were not followed. [..] > It was attempted in [..] > an administrative motion tacked onto the last page of a 9 page notice > (attached), reading "The current Fellowship representatives' membership > ends immediately after the this extraordinary General Assembly." The other interpretation of the May assembly, that we wanted to be extra clear what happens to the existing fellowship representatives, so they are treated with respect and not having their term terminated by a formal oversight. In the end this documented that you and Mirko could stay longer (than some legal interpretations implied). > If people had differences of opinion with me, there have been many > opportunities to discuss that with me at events but for the record, I'd > like to make it clear no other member ever did so. Unfortunately we did not meet at events, because I rarely make it to events these days being a Dad, instead I wrote several emails stating my disagreement (or agreement) with your points. > However, even though I agree with you for the general case that a member > may need to be excluded from time to time, in this case we are talking > about an elected representative. As you can see from the email of our care team: You are sometimes perceived as being offensive and making information public that others trusted you with in private without a good reason they can understand. If a large majority of e.V. members believe this to be a major problem they could formally exclude you, no matter how you have become a member of the e.V. . So far, they haven't. > Also, it is not correct to moan about a democratically elected > representative "obstructing" anything: it is their responsibility to > speak up. An elected representative would have no reason to exist > otherwise, would they? It is helpful to have a different view on things, but if it is getting highly unconstructive I believe that a large majority has to make sure that other people's, ways of working and views within the organisation are protected as well. Speaking up in itself is not a virtue, bring up important points and convincing others to do something about them is. > So why is FSFE afraid to allow the full community to vote for president > or allow anybody from the community to nominate for the role of president? Essentially, because we are not a "state". I've explained this elsewhere. We cannot say who is part of the "demos". If we are open to everybody, we would have the majority opinion which for instance would mean a certain proprietary operating system on desktops. And FSFE is about a smaller group in society trying to convince others about Free Software, otherwise we would be unnecessary. > I feel a duty to see out the term for the benefit of those people > who don't have a voice in our general meetings or don't even get invited. Are you really helping other fellows by bringing up a number of motions where many others signalled you that this is a formal style that would not help the intended course? What do the heating and repeating formal discussions like this one do to help FSFE get better to help people get educated about Free Software? Everybody's opinion is invited in FSFE, and then we need to find a course of action making practically the best out of our limited resources. I am human, you are human we all are humans, we are making mistakes. Now we are here. It seems to not work out between you and FSFE, so my suggestion is let us agree on this and split. Best Regards, Bernhard -- FSFE -- Founding Member Support our work for Free Software: blogs.fsfe.org/bernhard https://fsfe.org/donate | contribute

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Discussion September 2018