Discussion December 2008

discussion@lists.fsfe.org

20 participants
10 discussions

What is free sftware really? Was: RE: Article: "Fixing linux" - opinions?
by Sam Liddicott 19 Dec '08

19 Dec '08

(reply to nobody in particular) This discussion is why open source wins over free software. Free software is in reality too complicated. The definition is simple-ish but not at all useful; because... Even it's devotees can't agree on whether or not common "free" software is really free, and (from time to time) seem to suggest that they are each a bunch of unprincipled compromisers ruining the whole campaign. If we can't tell (or agree) what free software means practically then we should not be surprised at the mix of software masquerading as "free" - whatever that means, and practically speaking this is /obviously/ not clear to ANYONE though we each might think it is clear to ourself. Sam

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The Hanno Böck Fellowship Interview on FSD
by Stian Rødven Eide 18 Dec '08

18 Dec '08

http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/FSFE_Fellowship_interview_Hanno_B_ck Please vote if you like it ;-) all the best, /Stian

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FSFE announces 4 weeks of translation sprint
by Reinhard Mueller 15 Dec '08

15 Dec '08

Europe, 15 December 2008. The Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) announces a translation sprint for their web pages from 15 December 2008 to 11 January 2009. The aim of this sprint is to provide information about Free Software and FSFE's work in as many languages as possible. As one of its most important means of communication with the public, FSFE hosts a web site at http://www.fsfeurope.org/. Translating the texts and making them available for people with different native languages has always been important, and thanks to the untiring work of dozens of volunteers all around Europe, the pages are available in up to 26 different languages. Translating FSFE's web pages is a huge task. More than 250 pages are online, and several pages per week are added or updated and require new translations. There's always something left to do. More help is always welcome. So FSFE announces a four weeks translation sprint from 15 December 2008 to 11 January 2009, combined with a call for new volunteers. The job: to translate from English to other European languages, and to proofread translations. The mission: to fill as many translation gaps as possible. The candidate: you. Translating and proofreading texts is a precious contribution to the work of FSFE and an excellent chance to spontaneously take part in its activities without long-term obligations. And it's a great chance to contribute in a way that doesn't cost money. Interested? Willing to spend some time on the future of Free Software? Ready to join one of FSFE's largest volunteer groups? Have a look at the information page about webpage translations! And if you have further questions, don't hesitate to send an email to translators (at) fsfeurope.org. Some of the language groups have already declared some language-specific goals for the sprint - will you be helping your group to reach them? -- Reinhard Müller Free Software Foundation Europe Volunteer coordinator for web pages and translations

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RE: What is free sftware really? Was: RE: Article: "Fixing linux" - opinions?
by Sam Liddicott 14 Dec '08

14 Dec '08

I think you misunderstood what I was saying and ironically your response supports my secondary point. How can free software as a political movement avoid losing to the mere pragmatism of open source if it is so difficult to tell if any given piece of software is free, and if anyone who can't agree with all the zealots (impossible) must suffer a tongue lashing for sacrificing principle. I'm not abandonning ship but at least I'm willing to admit that it's leaking. How can somene only use free software if they don't know which software is free? Sam -----Original Message----- From: Noah Slater <nslater(a)tumbolia.org> Sent: 13 December 2008 20:45 To: Sam Liddicott <sam(a)liddicott.com> Cc: discussion(a)fsfeurope.org Subject: Re: What is free sftware really? Was: RE: Article: "Fixing linux" - opinions? On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 08:01:40PM -0000, Sam Liddicott wrote: > This discussion is why open source wins over free software. This is a terrible way to frame the issue. > Free software is in reality too complicated. Free software is a political movement, open source is a pragmatic method. Comparing the two is quite absurd, and yet so very common. > The definition is simple-ish but not at all useful; because... The definition has, and continues to be hugely useful for all manner of purposes! > Even it's devotees can't agree on whether or not common "free" software is > really free, and (from time to time) seem to suggest that they are each a > bunch of unprincipled compromisers ruining the whole campaign. Freedom means different things to different people. This is natural. What you're essentially saying is that because freedom, morals, ethics, and value judgements are necessarily subjective we should abandon the whole lot. Unless we can quantify something objectively it has no value. Which is absurd. > If we can't tell (or agree) what free software means practically then we > should not be surprised at the mix of software masquerading as "free" - > whatever that means, and practically speaking this is /obviously/ not clear to > ANYONE though we each might think it is clear to ourself. Sure, there is confusion. That is no reason to abandon ship. We need to work better as a community to promote the issues and ideologies around free software instead of "giving up" and talking about the "open source linux os" or whatever. -- Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater

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RE: What is free sftware really? Was: RE: Article: "Fixing linux" - opinions?
by Sam Liddicott 13 Dec '08

13 Dec '08

Noah; I can't believe that you didn't see the message that I was trying to convey, so I'll be brief this time: How shall we invite people to use free software when we can't agree on how to apply the principles of free software to decide if software is free? That's the question I'm raising, not whether or not we can do anything else, or whether or not I framed it well. I hope we can answer the question, not just talk about the question. Sam -----Original Message----- From: Noah Slater <nslater(a)tumbolia.org> Sent: 13 December 2008 20:45 To: Sam Liddicott <sam(a)liddicott.com> Cc: discussion(a)fsfeurope.org Subject: Re: What is free sftware really? Was: RE: Article: "Fixing linux" - opinions? On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 08:01:40PM -0000, Sam Liddicott wrote: > This discussion is why open source wins over free software. This is a terrible way to frame the issue. > Free software is in reality too complicated. Free software is a political movement, open source is a pragmatic method. Comparing the two is quite absurd, and yet so very common. > The definition is simple-ish but not at all useful; because... The definition has, and continues to be hugely useful for all manner of purposes! > Even it's devotees can't agree on whether or not common "free" software is > really free, and (from time to time) seem to suggest that they are each a > bunch of unprincipled compromisers ruining the whole campaign. Freedom means different things to different people. This is natural. What you're essentially saying is that because freedom, morals, ethics, and value judgements are necessarily subjective we should abandon the whole lot. Unless we can quantify something objectively it has no value. Which is absurd. > If we can't tell (or agree) what free software means practically then we > should not be surprised at the mix of software masquerading as "free" - > whatever that means, and practically speaking this is /obviously/ not clear to > ANYONE though we each might think it is clear to ourself. Sure, there is confusion. That is no reason to abandon ship. We need to work better as a community to promote the issues and ideologies around free software instead of "giving up" and talking about the "open source linux os" or whatever. -- Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater

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Article: "Fixing linux" - opinions?
by P.B. 13 Dec '08

13 Dec '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Today I've read this article titled " Fixing Linux: What's Broken And What To Do About It" http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articl… It contains a few arguments that are actually true and something everyone who's using Linux has thought/complained/or hoped for at least once. (I'll put myself mainly on the list of "packaging" and "audio" problems) These are things often noticed immediately by newcomers to the GNU/Linux world, and I must admit that I'd often be happy to have better solutions than the currently existing "freedom of choice incompatibility happiness". What's your opinion about the issues mentioned there? Pb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQCVAwUBSUEqZYoz7fiqfir6AQJ3AQP7BKDg0WK1FkPjvLvOsJEtkFPL8l2j0gR7 sCNcBSPH4/+XOBrQdJMWvrA5uvz2T5ZbHF2pw8gsWDRZWf9vQBEnzbjO80bXEjy0 2vN7NeuWbSFpyBDQeu+byXHlepp/Hc1A4yE38CIs3Fv6KtjD8PH1CO3yLomBP69I uvMgkxcQb9g= =p7V9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Announcement: pdfreaders.org
by HennR 13 Dec '08

13 Dec '08

Dear Fellows, during our regular meetings in the Berlin Fellowship group we discussed how PDF is a very useful format, but its usage often goes hand in hand with promotion of proprietary software, even though there are Free Software PDF readers. So we decided to do something about it. Over the past months we discussed with other Fellows across Europe on discussions(a)lists.fsfe.org, what we should be doing. Together we have set up an initiative for promoting Free Software PDF readers at http://pdfreaders.org. The idea is that web masters should have an alternative for the "Get Adobe Reader"-Buttons, linking to pdfreaders.org to inform people about Free Software PDF readers and where to find them. There are several buttons for pdfreaders.org that can be used for this purpose online at http://pdfreaders.org/graphics.html. When people then visit pdfreaders.org, they will get some very brief information about Open Standards and Free Software, and why they matter - along with information about the Free Software PDF readers and links for more information. We hope that you will help us to put these buttons on all sites that use PDF. Greetings from Berlin, HennR and Hannes

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Free Software related books for friends
by Matthias Kirschner 13 Dec '08

13 Dec '08

Hi all, I wrote a blog entry [1] about Free Software related books, especially for "non-technical" people / people new to Free Software. (Also submitted to fsdaily [2].): I started thinking about good Free Software related presents lately. Until now the best things which came into my mind are books. So I thought it might be good to have a list of Free Software related books which are nice to read also for people who haven't heard or read about Free Software before. Until now my list look looks like this (ordered from easy to a bit more difficult to read): - Lawrence Lessig: Free Culture: The Nature and Future of Creativity. [3] - Joshua Gay (Ed.): Free Software, Free Society: Selected Essays of Richard M. Stallman. [4] - Peter Drahos, John Braithwaite: Information Feudalism. [5] - Lawrence Lessig: Code: And Other Laws of Cyberspace, Version 2.0. [6] I have also a German list as I know some German speaking people, too ;) - Lawrence Lessig: Freie Kultur. [7] - Erik Möller: Die heimliche Medienrevolution Wie Weblogs, Wikis und freie Software die Welt verändern. [8] - Volker Grassmuck: Freie Software. For 2 EUR very good as a small present :) [9] - Lawrence Lessig: Code und andere Gesetze des Cyberspace. If you have other suggestions for non-techis, please write an e-mail to our public discussion list [10] or to me in private. Looking forward to additional suggestions. Best wishes, Matthias 1. http://www.fsfe.org/en/fellows/mk/i_love_it_here/free_software_related_book… 2. http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Free_Software_related_books_for_friends/ 3. http://www.bookzilla.de/shop/action/productDetails/3015706/lawrence_lessig_… 4. http://www.gnu.org/doc/book13.html 5. http://www.bookzilla.de/shop/action/productDetails/3604207/peter_drahos_joh… 6. http://www.bookzilla.de/shop/action/productDetails/5362782/lawrence_lessig_… 7. http://www.bookzilla.de/shop/action/productDetails/4489664/lawrence_lessig_… 8. http://www.bookzilla.de/shop/action/productDetails/5264703/erik_moeller_die… 9. http://freie-software.bpb.de/ 10. https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion -- Deputy German Coordinator, Fellowship Coordinator Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) [] (http://fsfeurope.org) Join the Fellowship of FSFE! [][][] (http://fsfe.org/join) Your donation powers our work! || (http://fsfeurope.org/donate)

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Article: "Fixing linux" - opinions?
by P.B. 11 Dec '08

11 Dec '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sorry. Just wanted to add one more thing in advance: - ----------- I don't agree with the author of this article in some points (e.g. remote-backup, gui-stuff being in the kernel, etc...). - ----------- However, it boils down to the need for more standardization of several things like UI, package management, etc (something I think KDE is going in a good direction). Pb -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQCVAwUBSUErWooz7fiqfir6AQIFYwP+PM3vZmNkduzTU9Q0J2Ga5a0W8Se98jzJ 33gmCZQLQ5f4jBEvHVFN3Wtp8WsSah1Qg2haTFBxVr994gTcZ2LzPHwoaF73yN2d ERgM/dj0fJqQg2u5ASYRpJmyOx8ccKk0k2zj455s/JoOPFr/oio2Ex4fwY7kQTRA HEvpH+HF/Uw= =xHY7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Analysis on balance: Standardisation and Patents
by Matthias Kirschner 04 Dec '08

04 Dec '08

Following up on the "IPR in ICT Standardisation" Workshop two weeks ago in Brussels, FSFE president Georg Greve analysed the conflicts between patents and standards. The resulting is paper about the most harmful effects of patents on standards, the effectiveness of current remedies, and potential future remedies. Read the whole article under: http://fsfeurope.org/projects/os/ps. = You want to help? = - If you want to help us please distribute this document. E.g. submit it to community sites. You can already vote for it on fsdaily [1] - Sent us feedback to this list. - When you have time you can help us _very much_ by translating the document into your language. Download the xhtml version at the button of the page [2], inform translators(a)fsfeurope.org that you start translating it, translate it, and sent it for proofreading to translators(a)fsfeurope.org. Best wishes, Matthias 1. http://www.fsdaily.com/Business/Analysis_on_balance_Standardisation_and_Pat… 2. http://fsfeurope.org/source/projects/os/ps.en.xhtml -- Deputy German Coordinator, Fellowship Coordinator Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) [] (http://fsfeurope.org) Join the Fellowship of FSFE! [][][] (http://fsfe.org/join) Your donation powers our work! || (http://fsfeurope.org/donate)

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Discussion December 2008