Discussion March 2002

discussion@lists.fsfe.org

60 participants
92 discussions

GNU Hurd
by Joerg Schilling 16 Mar '02

16 Mar '02

I am sorry, but I am only seeing weeny type arguments for HURD. Looking at the HURD programming progress shows up that there was some progress in 1996 and 1997. Please note that this was some years _after_ Linux became successful. For this reason, I cannot see that Linux should be responsible for the HURD desaster. If you believe that Hurd is a good idea, then stop talking about hurd and start working on hurd. Once it becomes usable and has the features requested by the users it will be used by a noticable number of people. Any OS that nobody likes to run cdrecord on could be considered dead these days.... "Es gibt nichts gutes außer man tut es...." Jörg EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js(a)cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix FOKUS at CeBIT Hall 11, A14 - BerliOS at CeBIT Hall 11 D11 (Future Market) Meet me at CeBIT in Hall 11 D11 on the BerliOS booth - www.berlios.de

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Re: BitKeeper licence critic
by Joerg Schilling 15 Mar '02

15 Mar '02

>From: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <rms(a)1407.org> >Fortunately, I do not think that this is the reality, but since I >learned what bitkeeper I felt very worried... Linus' nightmares of cvs >have turned true, but it's called bitkeeper. It almost feels like >Dune... I do not wish this to happen, but it happens anyway. >Now, as a sysadmin, if I find a bug in the kernel, all I can do is try >to make a patch to a version of the kernel that may already be too old >in developer time *sigh*. You are kidding! For 10 years of Linux thare have not been version control at all. Now you will tell us that the fact that version control has been introduced you are limited? Please stay reasonable. Jörg EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js(a)cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix

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Fwd: [Fwd: [Free-sklyarov-uk] Patent office calling for comments]
by MJ Ray 15 Mar '02

15 Mar '02

The Association For Free Software is interested in this topic, but is currently deciding what action to take. I suspect this campaign will be discussed at the next meeting, but I'd invite everyone to discuss it on the fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org mailing list now. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-uk Once again, how do we move forward in the most effective manner? MJR Subject: [Fwd: [Free-sklyarov-uk] Patent office calling for comments] From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o?= Miguel Neves <joao(a)silvaneves.org> Date: 15 Mar 2002 12:07:49 +0000 To: discussion(a)fsfeurope.org I received this message on another mailing-list. I would ask people from the UK to help there patent office on this issue. [...] To: free-sklyarov-uk(a)xenoclast.org From: Jim Peters <jim(a)uazu.net> Subject: [Free-sklyarov-uk] Patent office calling for comments Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:59:17 +0000 Probably other people have also received this in their E-mail today if they were involved in the patent consultation thing a while back, but I'll quote it here for anyone else to see. I'm suspecting this might be a little off-topic, but it seems related to what we're working with ... Jim - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=20 The Patent Office Official responsible: Robin Webb Direct line: 01633 813722 Concept House Fax: 01633 814922 Cardiff Road E-mail: robin.webb(a)patent.gov.uk Newport South Wales NP10 8QQ Central Enquiry Unit: 08459 500 505 Text Phone: 08459 222 250 http://www.patent.gov.uk E-NOTICE IPPD/16/2002 14 March 2002 EUROPEAN COMMISSION PROPOSAL FOR A DIRECTIVE ON THE=20 PATENTABILITY OF COMPUTER-IMPLEMENTED INVENTIONS In March last year the Government published its conclusions on whether patents should be granted for computer software or ways of doing business, following a consultation exercise. The central conclusion was "to reaffirm the principle that patents are for technological innovations. Software should not be patentable where there is no technological innovation, and technological innovations should not cease to be patentable merely because the innovation lies in software." But an urgent need to clarify the law was identified. Ways of doing business should remain unpatentable. The Government's conclusions are available at http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/consultations/conclusions.htm Since then the Government has been pressing the case for action at European level, and last month the European Commission published its long-awaited proposal for a directive, available at http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/indprop/02-277.htm The Patent Office invites views on how far the proposal for a directive meets the objectives set out in the Government's conclusions. In particular, we would welcome comments on: * whether the proposal is clear; * whether it deals clearly and satisfactorily with computer-implemented business methods where the inventive step is in the business method; * the treatment of the form of claim, in relation in particular to claims for programs. We would welcome comments by Friday 7 June. These should be emailed to policy(a)patent.gov.uk or posted to: Robin Webb Room 3 B 40 The Patent Office Concept House Cardiff Road Newport NP10 8QQ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=20 --=20 Jim Peters (_)/=3D\~/_(_) jim(a)uazu.net (_) /=3D\ ~/_ (_) Uaz=FA (_) /=3D\ ~/_ (_) http:// B'ham, UK (_) ____ /=3D\ ____ ~/_ ____ (_) uazu.net

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[Fwd: [Free-sklyarov-uk] Patent office calling for comments]
by João Miguel Neves 15 Mar '02

15 Mar '02

I received this message on another mailing-list. I would ask people from the UK to help there patent office on this issue. -- Joao Miguel Neves

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Fwd: Forum Mundial de Educa��o
by raphael calvelli 14 Mar '02

14 Mar '02

I received this, as follow-up of the articles I wrote and send on behalf of FSFE last September 2001. If anybody is ready to take the burden... Delivered-To: raphaello-mouse(a)altern.org From: Loíze Aurélio de Aguiar <loizeaguiar(a)smed.prefpoa.com.br> Subject: Forum Mundial de Educação Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:07:55 -0300 Status: World Education Forum Dear Delegate, The Communication Department is organizing the memories of the First Edition of the World Education Forum (WEF). We have been gathering all sorts of publications, such as magazines, newspapers, and homepages, which had divulged the event. We would like to count on you co-operation. In case you have any material on the World Education Forum, we kindly ask you to send it to the following address: Rua dos Andradas, 680 15o. andar Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil - 90020-004

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Miguel de Icaza in Spanish Senate
by Eneko Lacunza 13 Mar '02

13 Mar '02

Hello all, I thought you'd like to know that Miguel de Icaza, GNOME founder and Ximian CEO, is talking to spanish Senate comission on March 14th, at 16:00 CET, in order to "explain the Free Software phenomenon". With Miguel, spanish local "delegated advisor" (sorry, don't know the english name) of Microsoft will be speaking to the Senate's comission, in order to not have a "monopolistic" view. This talk has been agreed thanks to the Senate, the free software community and Hispalinux, which currently has over 1,500 associates. The talk will be streamed over internet, on the following page (Real Player G2): http://www.senado.es/novedades/index.html Hope this will help our politicians understand the current software "market". Regards. -- Eneko Lacunza # Por un mundo con conocimiento libre # Apoya el Software Libre - No a las patentes http://www.hispalinux.es - http://www.es.gnome.org http://www.fsfeurope.org - http://www.es.gnu.org

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Re: What do to about BitKeeper and the Linux Kernel
by Joerg Schilling 10 Mar '02

10 Mar '02

>From: Jeroen Dekkers <jeroen(a)dekkers.cx> >Also RMS contradicts itself by saying "Instead we would choose another >project, something to do a job that no existing free software can do." >The Hurd can clearly do a lot of things which no piece of existing >(free or non-free) software can do. If there was a price for the OS of least interest, then HURD would win. GNU Hurd is the only OS I am aware of so far nobody has asked for a cdrecord port. If you compare binary downloads and support requests for cdrecord, the most popupar POSIX like OS is Linux followed by Solaris and FreeBSD. Jörg EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js(a)cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix FOKUS at CeBIT Hall 11, A14 - BerliOS at CeBIT Hall 11 D11 (Future Market) Meet me at CeBIT in Hall 11 D11 on the BerliOS booth - www.berlios.de

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Re: BitKeeper licence critic
by Joerg Schilling 10 Mar '02

10 Mar '02

>From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> >Joerg Schilling <schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de> wrote: >> It seems that here are even people who refuse to read the POSIX >> standard because it may become non-free in the future. >I believe that you are referring to me and I refuse to read the POSIX >standard while they reserve the right to charge me in the future for having >done so. If that is not the case, they should fix their wording. Simple >point which I hope you can comprehend. Well English is you mother tongue, why then do you mix the past with the future? /*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ 4.The Open Group reserves the right to charge for HTML/PDF versions of its publications in the future. /*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ Again: Open group is making the SUSV2 standard available for free since 1999. SUSV3 is available on-line for at least 2 months. Your habbit is like you are not interested in free standards and if at all only want to receive ... If you would have registered to Open Group before and contributed your knowledge and work you would even have a PDF version of the standard. >If you are referring to SCCS, it appears that aegis is capable of using that >format for the changes, but you decline to comment on that point so far. >On the other hand, is a standard defined after GNU started by a group that >did not include GNU something to aim for? SCCS has been available since ~ 1975 RCS has been written mch later. >> If people always use free software even if it is non-standard, then >> we end up in a wold similar to the M$ world and the only advantage >> is that we don't have to pay. >Rubbish. There is no such thing as a closed file format with free >software, as it is always possible to adapt the reader code from the >original program. In most cases, the file formats are clearly and >explicitly documented anyway. So please do this for either CVS or SCCS and let us talk again after you are done. Jörg EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js(a)cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix FOKUS at CeBIT Hall 11, A14 - BerliOS at CeBIT Hall 11 D11 (Future Market) Meet me at CeBIT in Hall 11 D11 on the BerliOS booth - www.berlios.de

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Re: Bitkeeper in Linuxdevelopment :(
by Joerg Schilling 10 Mar '02

10 Mar '02

>From Weimer(a)CERT.Uni-Stuttgart.DE Sun Mar 10 17:59:21 2002 >>>Is the format of BitKeeper changesets defined somewhere, except in the >>>sources? >> >> Well the sccs format if well documented. It I call "man 5 cvs" I cannot >> find any documentation of the used file format. >The repository format used by CVS is based on RCS, and there is some >documentation for this format (and the differences introduced by RCS). Please shorten too much! The original questaion (2 weeks ago) has been why "man cvs" does not include any reference to the file format as people would expect. Jörg EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js(a)cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix FOKUS at CeBIT Hall 11, A14 - BerliOS at CeBIT Hall 11 D11 (Future Market) Meet me at CeBIT in Hall 11 D11 on the BerliOS booth - www.berlios.de

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Re: Bitkeeper in Linuxdevelopment :(
by Joerg Schilling 10 Mar '02

10 Mar '02

>From: Florian Weimer <Weimer(a)CERT.Uni-Stuttgart.DE> >> From lwn.net/daily today: >> >> | Linus, meanwhile, is moving on with 2.5.4-pre1. This is the first >> | patch that Linus has produced with Bitkeeper, >> >> It somehow worries me, that non-free software now is at the core >> of the prominent Free Software kernel linux. >Personally, I do not care much about the software Mr. Torvalds uses. >But I wonder if this choice forces (or persuades) other developers to >use proprietary software, too. >Is the format of BitKeeper changesets defined somewhere, except in the >sources? Well the sccs format if well documented. It I call "man 5 cvs" I cannot find any documentation of the used file format. Many developers currently don't care to use the undocumented proproetary format used by CVS, so what is your peroblem? Jörg EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js(a)cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling(a)fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix

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Discussion March 2002