From spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Nov  3 01:13:33 2012
From: spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk (Dutchess)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 01:13:33 +0100
Subject: Order page translation
Message-ID: <509461AD.7070802@yahoo.co.uk>

Hey all,

I gave the translation of the order page in the test branch a try.
Anyone want to proofread?

greets,
Deborah
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From samgee at elmundolibre.be  Sun Nov  4 22:01:28 2012
From: samgee at elmundolibre.be (Sam Geeraerts)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 22:01:28 +0100
Subject: Order page translation
In-Reply-To: <509461AD.7070802@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <509461AD.7070802@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5096D7A8.20902@elmundolibre.be>

Dutchess wrote:
> I gave the translation of the order page in the test branch a try.
> Anyone want to proofread?

Hi Deborah,

Looks good. I see a few opportunities for improvement:

- It's either "deel je passie" or "laat je passie zien".
- According to spelling rules [1] a composition with capitals needs a
dash, e.g. FSFE-artikelen, Heren-T-shirt.
- Babykleding is one word according to that word list.

[1] http://woordenlijst.org/leidraad/6/3/#r6h

Thanks,
Sam

From mho at fsfe.org  Sun Nov 11 16:53:24 2012
From: mho at fsfe.org (maurice)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:53:24 +0100
Subject: Order page translation
Message-ID: <CALyrUk5QPfuqmouE6E2jVOVyVdkXOK6mXp-Hcp_M8T+sJ26D4A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Deborah,

Very cool that you translated the order page to NL, thnx!! Do you have
any other pages that need translating? Maybe I can help?

Here the diff of my corrections (I've also put in Sam's suggestions).
Please feel free to comment!

% diff order1.nl.xhtml order.nl.xhtml
18c18
<         Laat je passie voor vrije software zien door de coole
offici&euml;le FSFE-artikelen hieronder te bestellen. Zo is vrije
software kleding een bijzonder leuke manier om bekendheid binnen je
gemeenschap te vergroten. Ook helpen je aankopen essenti&euml;le
FSFE-projecten te financieren!
---
>         Deel je passie voor Vrije Software zien door de bedrukte artikelen hieronder te bestellen. Vrije Software kleding is een leuke manier om bekendheid binnen je gemeenschap te vergroten. Daarnaast helpt iedere aankoop bij het financieren van essenti&euml;le FSFE projecten.
23c23
<                                                     Naast kleding
hebben we ook andere artikelen zoals <a href="#other-items">mokken,
speldjes en sleutelhangers</a>.
---
>                                                     We hebben ook andere artikelen zoals <a href="#other-items">mokken, speldjes en sleutelhangers</a>.
34c34
<       <h2>Dames t-shirts</h2>
---
>       <h2>Dames T-Shirts</h2>
38c38
<       <h2>Shirts met capuchon</h2>
---
>       <h2>Shirts met Capuchon</h2>
42c42
<       <h2>Babykleding</h2>
---
>       <h2>Baby Kleding</h2>
53,54c53,54
<         Informatie over het bestellen van folders en infobladen vindt je
<       op onze <a href="/documents/printable/printable.html">pagina met
---
>       U vindt informatie om folders en infobladen te bestellen op
>       onze <a href="/documents/printable/printable.html">pagina met


Kind regards,

Maurice


Dutchess wrote:
> I gave the translation of the order page in the test branch a try.
> Anyone want to proofread?

Hi Deborah,

Looks good. I see a few opportunities for improvement:

- It's either "deel je passie" or "laat je passie zien".
- According to spelling rules [1] a composition with capitals needs a
dash, e.g. FSFE-artikelen, Heren-T-shirt.
- Babykleding is one word according to that word list.

[1] http://woordenlijst.org/leidraad/6/3/#r6h

Thanks,
Sam
_______________________________________________
FSFE-BNL mailing
listFSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.orghttps://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl
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From mho at fsfe.org  Sun Nov 11 17:19:57 2012
From: mho at fsfe.org (maurice)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:19:57 +0100
Subject: Dutch coordinator
Message-ID: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all!

As some of you may know, Mark Lamers recently stepped down as coordinator
for the FSFE-fellows in the lowlands. I've taken it upon me to replace him
as coordinator. I've discussed this with Mark and in the past couple of
weeks there have been some fellowship meetings at T-Dose and the NLUUG
conference where this has been discussed with the fellows that were present
at these venues.

So far all agree with this, so I would like to ask you all to let me be the
coordinator until someone else wants to take over the role. At that time we
can hold a vote if necessary.

For those who do not know me:
I'm Maurice, 30 years old and I work for a company called AT Computing.
I've been working with free software for years now. My master thesis
research looked into how (Dutch) government organisations "buy" free
software -> (just search for "How to buy something that is free?").

Fellowship meetings:

At the moment I'm organizing a fellowship meeting in Nijmegen or Arnhem
somewhere in december. This will be a joint meeting with other software
freedom advocates and probably some fellows from the Dusseldorf
fellowship-group. If you like the idea please reply to this mail, than I
get a sense of how many fellows will attend. If anyone has suggestion about
the meetup please let me know!

The next meeting after that is probably gonna be the Fosdem 2013!

Kind regards,

Maurice
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From jelle at fsfe.org  Sun Nov 11 19:36:12 2012
From: jelle at fsfe.org (Jelle Hermsen)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 19:36:12 +0100
Subject: Dutch coordinator
In-Reply-To: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org>

Hi Maurice et al,
Great that you've taken on the challenge of filling Marks big boots :).

In the meantime I'm calling it quits with volunteering for FSFE. I have 
put quite some time into FSFE the last couple of years: translating 
pages on the website, newsletters, helping out with the PDFreaders 
campaign, sending out letters, helping to spread awareness of FSFE in 
NL, and looking into Dutch and Belgian tax laws to try to achieve tax 
deductible donations.

I really like FSFE and adore its goals, but personally I don't like the 
idea that you have to stand on the sideline if you can't make it to 
live-meetings easily. I have asked multiple times for the mailing list 
to be our central hub of communication and decision making, or at least 
to be kept in the loop, just like how it usually works in Free Software 
projects, but unfortunately this is not the way things work here. The 
first news on the meeting at T-Dose reaching the mailing list two weeks 
after the fact merely supports this. Anyway, I'm not aggrieved or 
anything, I can understand this is the way the cookie crumbles, 
especially when a group like ours make up such a small geographical 
area.  Accepting this fact, I think that's it's better to spend my time 
elsewhere in the world of FLOSS.

I wish you all the best of luck.
Cheers,
Jelle


On 11/11/12 17:19, maurice wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> As some of you may know, Mark Lamers recently stepped down as coordinator
> for the FSFE-fellows in the lowlands. I've taken it upon me to replace him
> as coordinator. I've discussed this with Mark and in the past couple of
> weeks there have been some fellowship meetings at T-Dose and the NLUUG
> conference where this has been discussed with the fellows that were present
> at these venues.
>
> So far all agree with this, so I would like to ask you all to let me be the
> coordinator until someone else wants to take over the role. At that time we
> can hold a vote if necessary.
>
> For those who do not know me:
> I'm Maurice, 30 years old and I work for a company called AT Computing.
> I've been working with free software for years now. My master thesis
> research looked into how (Dutch) government organisations "buy" free
> software -> (just search for "How to buy something that is free?").
>
> Fellowship meetings:
>
> At the moment I'm organizing a fellowship meeting in Nijmegen or Arnhem
> somewhere in december. This will be a joint meeting with other software
> freedom advocates and probably some fellows from the Dusseldorf
> fellowship-group. If you like the idea please reply to this mail, than I
> get a sense of how many fellows will attend. If anyone has suggestion about
> the meetup please let me know!
>
> The next meeting after that is probably gonna be the Fosdem 2013!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Maurice
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl


From spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov 12 19:53:08 2012
From: spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk (Dutchess)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:53:08 +0100
Subject: Order page translation
In-Reply-To: <CALyrUk5QPfuqmouE6E2jVOVyVdkXOK6mXp-Hcp_M8T+sJ26D4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyrUk5QPfuqmouE6E2jVOVyVdkXOK6mXp-Hcp_M8T+sJ26D4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A14594.3030704@yahoo.co.uk>

Maurice,
Babykleding is one word as far as I know. It was adjusted after a tip 
from Sam.

Jelle: thanks for having spent so much time in your busy schedule for 
FSFE work. It is really too bad you are quitting. T-Dose is, so far, one 
of the few events I visit regularly. I am not a fellow and (for that 
reason?) not sure what you refer to as T-Dose news.
In any case, glad to have met you on the mailinglist. See you in a few 
years with the junior FOSS enthusiast ? :)

Deb.

On 11/11/2012 04:53 PM, maurice wrote:
> Hi Deborah,
>
> Very cool that you translated the order page to NL, thnx!! Do you have any other pages that need translating? Maybe I can help?
>
> Here the diff of my corrections (I've also put in Sam's suggestions). Please feel free to comment!
>
> % diff order1.nl.xhtml order.nl.xhtml
> 18c18
> <          Laat je passie voor vrije software zien door de coole offici&euml;le FSFE-artikelen hieronder te bestellen. Zo is vrije software kleding een bijzonder leuke manier om bekendheid binnen je gemeenschap te vergroten. Ook helpen je aankopen essenti&euml;le FSFE-projecten te financieren!
> ---
> >          Deel je passie voor Vrije Software zien door de bedrukte artikelen hieronder te bestellen. Vrije Software kleding is een leuke manier om bekendheid binnen je gemeenschap te vergroten. Daarnaast helpt iedere aankoop bij het financieren van essenti&euml;le FSFE projecten.
> 23c23
> <                                                      Naast kleding hebben we ook andere artikelen zoals<a href="#other-items">mokken, speldjes en sleutelhangers</a>.
> ---
> >                                                      We hebben ook andere artikelen zoals<a href="#other-items">mokken, speldjes en sleutelhangers</a>.
> 34c34
> <        <h2>Dames t-shirts</h2>
> ---
> >        <h2>Dames T-Shirts</h2>
> 38c38
> <        <h2>Shirts met capuchon</h2>
> ---
> >        <h2>Shirts met Capuchon</h2>
> 42c42
> <        <h2>Babykleding</h2>
> ---
> >        <h2>Baby Kleding</h2>
> 53,54c53,54
> <          Informatie over het bestellen van folders en infobladen vindt je
> <        op onze<a href="/documents/printable/printable.html">pagina met
> ---
> >        U vindt informatie om folders en infobladen te bestellen op
> >        onze<a href="/documents/printable/printable.html">pagina met
> Kind regards,
> Maurice
> Dutchess wrote:
> >  I gave the translation of the order page in the test branch a try.
> >  Anyone want to proofread?
>
> Hi Deborah,
>
> Looks good. I see a few opportunities for improvement:
>
> - It's either "deel je passie" or "laat je passie zien".
> - According to spelling rules [1] a composition with capitals needs a
> dash, e.g. FSFE-artikelen, Heren-T-shirt.
> - Babykleding is one word according to that word list.
>
> [1]http://woordenlijst.org/leidraad/6/3/#r6h
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
> _______________________________________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org  <mailto:FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org>
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl

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From m.verheesen at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 20:11:29 2012
From: m.verheesen at gmail.com (Maurice Verheesen)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:11:29 +0100
Subject: Dutch coordinator
In-Reply-To: <509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org>
References: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org>
Message-ID: <CALyrUk61+UxEgrqqfoqsgcmSQbLWNUbrzFC=R8tN9_KM98GdiA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jelle,

Sorry to hear that you are slowing down your FSFE work. I get the feeling
you that you feel kept out of the loop. Seeing the low traffic on the
maillinglist and considering that this is your only connection to the
fellows, I can understand that feeling, although it is not the case. irl
i've met maybe 3 or 4 other fellows so far. So I actually agree with you
that the maillinglist should be used more. One of the things we should all
try to improve. I for one hope to inspire more people to become active and
share their activities and thoughts here. Therefore I hope that this future
increase in traffic might seduce you to put in your effort once more!

For now, thank you very much for all the work you already have put in and I
hope seeing you back on the maillinglist in the future!

Kind regards,

Maurice



2012/11/11 Jelle Hermsen <jelle at fsfe.org>

> Hi Maurice et al,
> Great that you've taken on the challenge of filling Marks big boots :).
>
> In the meantime I'm calling it quits with volunteering for FSFE. I have
> put quite some time into FSFE the last couple of years: translating pages
> on the website, newsletters, helping out with the PDFreaders campaign,
> sending out letters, helping to spread awareness of FSFE in NL, and looking
> into Dutch and Belgian tax laws to try to achieve tax deductible donations.
>
> I really like FSFE and adore its goals, but personally I don't like the
> idea that you have to stand on the sideline if you can't make it to
> live-meetings easily. I have asked multiple times for the mailing list to
> be our central hub of communication and decision making, or at least to be
> kept in the loop, just like how it usually works in Free Software projects,
> but unfortunately this is not the way things work here. The first news on
> the meeting at T-Dose reaching the mailing list two weeks after the fact
> merely supports this. Anyway, I'm not aggrieved or anything, I can
> understand this is the way the cookie crumbles, especially when a group
> like ours make up such a small geographical area.  Accepting this fact, I
> think that's it's better to spend my time elsewhere in the world of FLOSS.
>
> I wish you all the best of luck.
> Cheers,
> Jelle
>
>
>
> On 11/11/12 17:19, maurice wrote:
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> As some of you may know, Mark Lamers recently stepped down as coordinator
>> for the FSFE-fellows in the lowlands. I've taken it upon me to replace him
>> as coordinator. I've discussed this with Mark and in the past couple of
>> weeks there have been some fellowship meetings at T-Dose and the NLUUG
>> conference where this has been discussed with the fellows that were
>> present
>> at these venues.
>>
>> So far all agree with this, so I would like to ask you all to let me be
>> the
>> coordinator until someone else wants to take over the role. At that time
>> we
>> can hold a vote if necessary.
>>
>> For those who do not know me:
>> I'm Maurice, 30 years old and I work for a company called AT Computing.
>> I've been working with free software for years now. My master thesis
>> research looked into how (Dutch) government organisations "buy" free
>> software -> (just search for "How to buy something that is free?").
>>
>> Fellowship meetings:
>>
>> At the moment I'm organizing a fellowship meeting in Nijmegen or Arnhem
>> somewhere in december. This will be a joint meeting with other software
>> freedom advocates and probably some fellows from the Dusseldorf
>> fellowship-group. If you like the idea please reply to this mail, than I
>> get a sense of how many fellows will attend. If anyone has suggestion
>> about
>> the meetup please let me know!
>>
>> The next meeting after that is probably gonna be the Fosdem 2013!
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Maurice
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> FSFE-BNL mailing list
>> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
>> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/**mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl<https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl>
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/**mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl<https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl>
>



-- 
"About innovation happens elsewhere: Innovation happens actually
everywhere, but there is simply more elsewhere than here."
- Ron Goldman
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From mho at fsfe.org  Mon Nov 12 20:13:59 2012
From: mho at fsfe.org (maurice)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:13:59 +0100
Subject: Order page translation
In-Reply-To: <50A14594.3030704@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <CALyrUk5QPfuqmouE6E2jVOVyVdkXOK6mXp-Hcp_M8T+sJ26D4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<50A14594.3030704@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CALyrUk5YU2JZ9iU1BzU2wDR1=aB_P8qctsC+ztqFwW1E3yEBgA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Deb!

Wups did I not change that? Sorry! What did you think about the other
changes?

Kind regards,

Maurice


2012/11/12 Dutchess <spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk>

>  Maurice,
> Babykleding is one word as far as I know. It was adjusted after a tip from
> Sam.
>
> Jelle: thanks for having spent so much time in your busy schedule for FSFE
> work. It is really too bad you are quitting. T-Dose is, so far, one of the
> few events I visit regularly. I am not a fellow and (for that reason?) not
> sure what you refer to as T-Dose news.
> In any case, glad to have met you on the mailinglist. See you in a few
> years with the junior FOSS enthusiast ? :)
>
> Deb.
>
>
> On 11/11/2012 04:53 PM, maurice wrote:
>
> Hi Deborah,
>
> Very cool that you translated the order page to NL, thnx!! Do you have any other pages that need translating? Maybe I can help?
>
> Here the diff of my corrections (I've also put in Sam's suggestions). Please feel free to comment!
>
> % diff order1.nl.xhtml order.nl.xhtml
> 18c18
> <         Laat je passie voor vrije software zien door de coole offici&euml;le FSFE-artikelen hieronder te bestellen. Zo is vrije software kleding een bijzonder leuke manier om bekendheid binnen je gemeenschap te vergroten. Ook helpen je aankopen essenti&euml;le FSFE-projecten te financieren!
> ---
> >         Deel je passie voor Vrije Software zien door de bedrukte artikelen hieronder te bestellen. Vrije Software kleding is een leuke manier om bekendheid binnen je gemeenschap te vergroten. Daarnaast helpt iedere aankoop bij het financieren van essenti&euml;le FSFE projecten.
> 23c23
> <                                                     Naast kleding hebben we ook andere artikelen zoals <a href="#other-items">mokken, speldjes en sleutelhangers</a>.
> ---
> >                                                     We hebben ook andere artikelen zoals <a href="#other-items">mokken, speldjes en sleutelhangers</a>.
> 34c34
> <       <h2>Dames t-shirts</h2>
> ---
> >       <h2>Dames T-Shirts</h2>
> 38c38
> <       <h2>Shirts met capuchon</h2>
> ---
> >       <h2>Shirts met Capuchon</h2>
> 42c42
> <       <h2>Babykleding</h2>
> ---
> >       <h2>Baby Kleding</h2>
> 53,54c53,54
> <         Informatie over het bestellen van folders en infobladen vindt je
> <       op onze <a href="/documents/printable/printable.html">pagina met
> ---
> >       U vindt informatie om folders en infobladen te bestellen op
> >       onze <a href="/documents/printable/printable.html">pagina met
>
>  Kind regards,
>
> Maurice
>
>  Dutchess wrote:
> > I gave the translation of the order page in the test branch a try.
> > Anyone want to proofread?
>
> Hi Deborah,
>
> Looks good. I see a few opportunities for improvement:
>
> - It's either "deel je passie" or "laat je passie zien".
> - According to spelling rules [1] a composition with capitals needs a
> dash, e.g. FSFE-artikelen, Heren-T-shirt.
> - Babykleding is one word according to that word list.
>
> [1] http://woordenlijst.org/leidraad/6/3/#r6h
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
> _______________________________________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing listFSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.orghttps://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing listFSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.orghttps://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl
>
>
>
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From samgee at elmundolibre.be  Mon Nov 12 22:35:50 2012
From: samgee at elmundolibre.be (Sam Geeraerts)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:35:50 +0100
Subject: Dutch coordinator
In-Reply-To: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A16BB6.9060109@elmundolibre.be>

maurice wrote:
> So far all agree with this, so I would like to ask you all to let me be the
> coordinator until someone else wants to take over the role. At that time we
> can hold a vote if necessary.

Congratulations.

> At the moment I'm organizing a fellowship meeting in Nijmegen or Arnhem
> somewhere in december. This will be a joint meeting with other software
> freedom advocates and probably some fellows from the Dusseldorf
> fellowship-group. If you like the idea please reply to this mail, than I
> get a sense of how many fellows will attend. If anyone has suggestion about
> the meetup please let me know!

My experience with travelling by train across the border was not so
great last time I tried it. But I'll look into it again to see if I can
make it.

> The next meeting after that is probably gonna be the Fosdem 2013!

That should be no problem.

From jelle at fsfe.org  Tue Nov 13 14:24:24 2012
From: jelle at fsfe.org (Jelle Hermsen)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:24:24 +0100
Subject: Dutch coordinator
In-Reply-To: <CALyrUk61+UxEgrqqfoqsgcmSQbLWNUbrzFC=R8tN9_KM98GdiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org>
	<CALyrUk61+UxEgrqqfoqsgcmSQbLWNUbrzFC=R8tN9_KM98GdiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A24A08.7060906@fsfe.org>

Hiya,
Thanks for your kind words, Maurice and Deborah.

> Therefore I hope that this future
> increase in traffic might seduce you to put in your effort once more!
That would be nice :). In the meantime I'm going to put time into coding 
on various FLOSS projects.

> See you in a few years with the junior FOSS enthusiast ? 
One of my eldest daughters first words was Tux, so that should be doable 
:-) I think it's about time I install DoudouLinux on one of my machines 
and turn them loose on that :).

Cheers,
Jelle


On 11/12/12 20:11, Maurice Verheesen wrote:
> Hi Jelle,
>
> Sorry to hear that you are slowing down your FSFE work. I get the feeling
> you that you feel kept out of the loop. Seeing the low traffic on the
> maillinglist and considering that this is your only connection to the
> fellows, I can understand that feeling, although it is not the case. irl
> i've met maybe 3 or 4 other fellows so far. So I actually agree with you
> that the maillinglist should be used more. One of the things we should all
> try to improve. I for one hope to inspire more people to become active and
> share their activities and thoughts here. Therefore I hope that this future
> increase in traffic might seduce you to put in your effort once more!
>
> For now, thank you very much for all the work you already have put in and I
> hope seeing you back on the maillinglist in the future!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Maurice
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/**mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl<https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl>
>
>
>


From rainer at woodshed.de  Tue Nov 13 15:43:29 2012
From: rainer at woodshed.de (Rainer Kersten)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:43:29 +0100
Subject: Dutch coordinator
In-Reply-To: <509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org>
References: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org>
Message-ID: <20121113144329.GA10436@bilkinfo.de>

Hi folks!

On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 07:36:12PM +0100, Jelle Hermsen wrote:
> In the meantime I'm calling it quits with volunteering for FSFE.

Oops...?!

> I have put quite some time into FSFE the last couple of years:
> (...)

I know and I have to thank you for all that work!

> I really like FSFE and adore its goals, but personally I don't like
> the idea that you have to stand on the sideline if you can't make it
> to live-meetings easily.

I have to comment that and I do disagree. In my eyes, personal
meetings are important, but not essential. Noone has to stand on
the sideline. Is there a sideline, btw? ;-)

> I have asked multiple times for the mailing
> list to be our central hub of communication and decision making,

...which is absolutely fine. Noone disagreed with that principle.

> or at least to be kept in the loop,

Ehm... There was simply no "loop", beside my recommendation to
discuss the followership of Mark face-to-face. Noone disgreed as well.
That was all. And in my eyes, in this case that was better.
But for sure, it was clear, that the outcome of that chats should
be discussed here to get the blessing of all others.

> just like how it usually works in
> Free Software projects, but unfortunately this is not the way things
> work here.

There seems to be a misunderstanding: There are no "things".
It is the same trap Maurice hitted some days ago: If you read no
communication about $whatever, that does _not_ mean, that you are
out of the loop. There was simply no loop, no communication,
no "things". ;-)

> The first news on the meeting at T-Dose reaching the
> mailing list two weeks after the fact merely supports this.

This is true. The reason is simply: Maurive is doing his daily work
as well, and had some qestions before introducing himself here.
I didn't done that, because I felt it is better style when Maurice
is doing this by himself. Two weeks is not optimal, but hey, _this_
is the way "things" are running here. ;-)

> Anyway,I'm not aggrieved or anything,

This is fine and I am happy about that!

> I can understand this is the way the cookie crumbles,

There is that misunderstanding again: There is no cookie, and
therefore no crumbling. This is what we want to build up! ;-)

> especially when a group like ours make up such a
> small geographical area.  Accepting this fact, I think that's it's
> better to spend my time elsewhere in the world of FLOSS.

For sure, I accept your decision, but if the reason is just the
a.m. one, your decision is most likely based on a misunderstanding.

> I wish you all the best of luck.

Same to you, anyway! ;-)

Just a word about personal meetings: When a bunch of people do not
know each other, they _can_ coordinate their work via mailing lists
and other similar channels. According to my experience it is far
easier, when they have seen themselves one or two times.
Communication is far easier when I know with whome I do type.
Building trust is easier. Understanding irony is easier.
Motivating others to get active is easier. A.s.o.

That's why I try to bring people together, whenever there is
chance to do so. That should _not_ reduce other ways of
communication, but intensify those ways.

Noone should stand aside, who can't make it to any meetings,
events, $whatever.

As I should assist all of you, I am even willing and able to
pass by and visit friends! Yes, that helps as well.

We should use all communication channels we have, when they
are useful. This includes real life and VoA[1].

At least, at FOSDEM, the big "family event", there should be
the chance to chat. Let's take it! ;-)

Groeten Rainer,
who still feels ashamed not be able to write nederlands.

[1] VoA = "Voice over air", an outdated protocol which is
meanwhile used only outside the internet.

From anwalt at rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de  Mon Nov 12 12:23:27 2012
From: anwalt at rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de (RA Stehmann)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:23:27 +0100
Subject: Neuer Koordinator NL
In-Reply-To: <20121112110234.GB7974@bilkinfo.de>
References: <20121112110234.GB7974@bilkinfo.de>
Message-ID: <50A0DC2F.2040902@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>

Am 12.11.2012 12:02, schrieb Rainer Kersten:
> Hier stellt sich der neue Fellowship-Koordinator f?r
> die Niederlande vor. U.a. kam die Idee auf, ein
> gemeinsames Treffen in Nijmegen zu veranstalten.
> 
> Gruss Rainer

Congrats!

It's a fine idea to make a common fellowship-meeting in the Netherlands.

All fellows in Netherlands and Belgium are invited to visit our meetings.

The meetings in D?sseldorf are on each last Wednesday of a month except
December.

Regards
Michael (the guy, who visit T-DOSE on Saturday)

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From jelle at fsfe.org  Thu Nov 15 17:04:52 2012
From: jelle at fsfe.org (Jelle Hermsen)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:04:52 +0100
Subject: lack of communication
In-Reply-To: <20121113144329.GA10436@bilkinfo.de>
References: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org> <20121113144329.GA10436@bilkinfo.de>
Message-ID: <50A512A4.9000706@fsfe.org>

Hi Rainer,
Thanks for your ironic lesson in postmodernism, that was really helpful 
.-). So to summarize what you said: there is no sideline, no loop, no 
"things", no communication and of course there's no such thing as a 
cookie. You forgot to mention that there is no spoon, but that would 
have overdone it :-)

Anyway, I understand that you mean well and all, but seriously I don't 
think you really caught my drift. I'm all for personal meetings. I know 
quite a few things about social psychology and group dynamics and 
meetings in person can be the gaffer tape that holds groups together. So 
by all means, meet as much as possible.

The one thing I have a slight issue with is the fact that for me, a 
mostly digital and virtual fellow (heck, I might not even exist really), 
there seem to be quite a few decisions regarding the dutch fellowship 
that "pop" out of nowhere. For all I care you may have visited a black 
box that was suspended in time until a gryphon flew you back to this 
plain of existence, including conclusions, resolutions, prearrangements, 
results, and of course agreements :).

There were quite a few decisions on what the fellowship should do in NL 
that were made during conferences (T-Dose, NLUUG, Fosdem) or other 
places that do not include this mailing list. It's not that I disagree 
with decisions that were made, or think that there was poor judgement. - 
I for example think it's a great idea to make Maurice coordinator. After 
he joined the fellowship early 2011 he's proven to give great input. - 
But what I miss is transparency, clear communication and I know that 
it's this lack of communication that has been brought up before, not 
only by me, but also on a broader scale in the FSFE, for example by you 
on the coordinators mailing list in Februari this year.

There's of course no deliberate sidelines or anything, people aren't 
"out of the loop" on purpose as - like you said - there's no such thing 
as a loop. There's just coincidental meetings of persons, exchange of 
thoughts and resulting conclusions. I know there's no real system behind 
this and what I proposed was to maybe try to tidy the communication a 
bit up, using the mailing list for decision making, planning of which 
routes we should take. We might wake up some fellows on the list and get 
them enthusiastic.

Jelle

ps: I don't care that it takes two weeks for a message to reach to 
mailing list, it is what precedes such messages and summaries that 
counts for me.

On 11/13/12 15:43, Rainer Kersten wrote:
> Hi folks!
>
> On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 07:36:12PM +0100, Jelle Hermsen wrote:
>> In the meantime I'm calling it quits with volunteering for FSFE.
> Oops...?!
>
>> I have put quite some time into FSFE the last couple of years:
>> (...)
> I know and I have to thank you for all that work!
>
>> I really like FSFE and adore its goals, but personally I don't like
>> the idea that you have to stand on the sideline if you can't make it
>> to live-meetings easily.
> I have to comment that and I do disagree. In my eyes, personal
> meetings are important, but not essential. Noone has to stand on
> the sideline. Is there a sideline, btw? ;-)
>
>> I have asked multiple times for the mailing
>> list to be our central hub of communication and decision making,
> ...which is absolutely fine. Noone disagreed with that principle.
>
>> or at least to be kept in the loop,
> Ehm... There was simply no "loop", beside my recommendation to
> discuss the followership of Mark face-to-face. Noone disgreed as well.
> That was all. And in my eyes, in this case that was better.
> But for sure, it was clear, that the outcome of that chats should
> be discussed here to get the blessing of all others.
>
>> just like how it usually works in
>> Free Software projects, but unfortunately this is not the way things
>> work here.
> There seems to be a misunderstanding: There are no "things".
> It is the same trap Maurice hitted some days ago: If you read no
> communication about $whatever, that does _not_ mean, that you are
> out of the loop. There was simply no loop, no communication,
> no "things". ;-)
>
>> The first news on the meeting at T-Dose reaching the
>> mailing list two weeks after the fact merely supports this.
> This is true. The reason is simply: Maurive is doing his daily work
> as well, and had some qestions before introducing himself here.
> I didn't done that, because I felt it is better style when Maurice
> is doing this by himself. Two weeks is not optimal, but hey, _this_
> is the way "things" are running here. ;-)
>
>> Anyway,I'm not aggrieved or anything,
> This is fine and I am happy about that!
>
>> I can understand this is the way the cookie crumbles,
> There is that misunderstanding again: There is no cookie, and
> therefore no crumbling. This is what we want to build up! ;-)
>
>> especially when a group like ours make up such a
>> small geographical area.  Accepting this fact, I think that's it's
>> better to spend my time elsewhere in the world of FLOSS.
> For sure, I accept your decision, but if the reason is just the
> a.m. one, your decision is most likely based on a misunderstanding.
>
>> I wish you all the best of luck.
> Same to you, anyway! ;-)
>
> Just a word about personal meetings: When a bunch of people do not
> know each other, they _can_ coordinate their work via mailing lists
> and other similar channels. According to my experience it is far
> easier, when they have seen themselves one or two times.
> Communication is far easier when I know with whome I do type.
> Building trust is easier. Understanding irony is easier.
> Motivating others to get active is easier. A.s.o.
>
> That's why I try to bring people together, whenever there is
> chance to do so. That should _not_ reduce other ways of
> communication, but intensify those ways.
>
> Noone should stand aside, who can't make it to any meetings,
> events, $whatever.
>
> As I should assist all of you, I am even willing and able to
> pass by and visit friends! Yes, that helps as well.
>
> We should use all communication channels we have, when they
> are useful. This includes real life and VoA[1].
>
> At least, at FOSDEM, the big "family event", there should be
> the chance to chat. Let's take it! ;-)
>
> Groeten Rainer,
> who still feels ashamed not be able to write nederlands.
>
> [1] VoA = "Voice over air", an outdated protocol which is
> meanwhile used only outside the internet.
> _______________________________________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl
>


From spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Nov 18 00:06:33 2012
From: spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk (Dutchess)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:06:33 +0100
Subject: FOSS and TED events
In-Reply-To: <50A24A08.7060906@fsfe.org>
References: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org>
	<CALyrUk61+UxEgrqqfoqsgcmSQbLWNUbrzFC=R8tN9_KM98GdiA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50A24A08.7060906@fsfe.org>
Message-ID: <50A81879.7070200@yahoo.co.uk>

Hey all,

In case you are unfamiliar with TED, in very short it is an organisation 
promoting philantropic ideas, showcasing all sort of innovation, tech, 
art and design by holding talks all over the world.

As I was watching a TED talk on TED.com where someone released his 
invented machine as open hardware and software, it got me thinking.
There are several speakers that discuss open hardware and software and 
the crowd might be an ideal group to promote FOSS to.

  I haven't been to the last TED event in Amsterdam, so I don't know if 
the FSFE organisation had a stand there, but this might be a really good 
crowd. Especially since the NLUUG and T-Dose meetings are mostly like 
preaching to the choir. The curious TED crowd might just be tech-savvy 
enough to be persuaded to give a lot of FOSS software a go. Also having 
a crowd that has all sorts of different backgrounds might be another 
plus. A bigger chance that different groups might start understanding, 
caring or even using Open Source.

The next TED event in Amsterdam (biggest in the Netherlands) is on the 
30th of November. I have not contacted them (yet), but I do wonder if we 
could at least flyer near the entrance. If I remember correctly, someone 
in the organisation is a Linux engineer, but even if I am mistaken the 
FSFE seems like the kind of organisation they'd be open to.

Anyways, what do you think? Good idea?

Deborah

From spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Nov 18 00:15:58 2012
From: spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk (Dutchess)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:15:58 +0100
Subject: TED and FSFE addendum
Message-ID: <50A81AAE.4050203@yahoo.co.uk>

Hey everyone,

I forgot to mention that there is also a TED event in Eindhoven. The 
next one will be next year. Maybe someone is willing to pitch there? I 
am not much of a speaker and perhaps not informed enough on the topic as 
well.
http://tedxbrainport.nl This year most talks were very commercial, so 
some actual philantropy seems good. :)

Deborah

From iain.murdoch1 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 17 23:19:50 2012
From: iain.murdoch1 at gmail.com (iain murdoch)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 23:19:50 +0100
Subject: TED and FSFE addendum
In-Reply-To: <50A81AAE.4050203@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <50A81AAE.4050203@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA4BfW=3EaUUC85=EtO1_v0D=pXMKoMinSOiwhewa6UY0Z_4Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all, could you please remove me from this mailing list. Due to work and
personal commitments I have less time to be involved in FOSS activities. I
wish you all lots of sucses with your plans, ambitions and activites for
the future
Best regards
Iain
On Nov 17, 2012 11:16 PM, "Dutchess" <spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> I forgot to mention that there is also a TED event in Eindhoven. The next
> one will be next year. Maybe someone is willing to pitch there? I am not
> much of a speaker and perhaps not informed enough on the topic as well.
> http://tedxbrainport.nl This year most talks were very commercial, so
> some actual philantropy seems good. :)
>
> Deborah
> ______________________________**_________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/**mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl<https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl>
>
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From stappers at debian.org  Sun Nov 18 08:25:57 2012
From: stappers at debian.org (Geert Stappers)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:25:57 +0100
Subject: how to unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <CAA4BfW=3EaUUC85=EtO1_v0D=pXMKoMinSOiwhewa6UY0Z_4Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50A81AAE.4050203@yahoo.co.uk>
	<CAA4BfW=3EaUUC85=EtO1_v0D=pXMKoMinSOiwhewa6UY0Z_4Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121118072557.GA22053@gpm.stappers.nl>

On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 11:19:50PM +0100, iain murdoch wrote:
> Hi all, could you please remove me from this mailing list. Due to work and
> personal commitments I have less time to be involved in FOSS activities.


A few minutes ago did I sent an E-mail with these lines:

  From: iain murdoch <iain.murdoch1 at gmail.com>
  To: fsfe-bnl-request at fsfeurope.org
  Subject: unsubscribe

It is up to you to confirm the response from the mailinglist server your.


> I wish you all lots of sucses with your plans, ambitions and activites for
> the future

Thank you.


> Best regards
> Iain

Cheers
Geert Stappers
DD
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From m.verheesen at gmail.com  Sun Nov 18 21:05:37 2012
From: m.verheesen at gmail.com (Maurice Verheesen)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:05:37 +0100
Subject: Fwd: FOSS and TED events
In-Reply-To: <CALyrUk6RQQVTfW_4Bj6LYf6o9P5MDS9_oZ_ispnJgaCF_cwGWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyrUk50b3Av8H_xNXGodnHhL089nmqLRrDofUNATa+XheDfpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<509FF01C.9000302@fsfe.org>
	<CALyrUk61+UxEgrqqfoqsgcmSQbLWNUbrzFC=R8tN9_KM98GdiA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50A24A08.7060906@fsfe.org> <50A81879.7070200@yahoo.co.uk>
	<CALyrUk6RQQVTfW_4Bj6LYf6o9P5MDS9_oZ_ispnJgaCF_cwGWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALyrUk4Q+rc1apq8EBFPGfa3nnuCAsWypkvQ9Eeew2a1=iaJzg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Deborah,

2012/11/18 Dutchess <spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk>

> Hey all,
>
> [...]
>
>
>  I haven't been to the last TED event in Amsterdam, so I don't know if the
> FSFE organisation had a stand there, but this might be a really good crowd.
> Especially since the NLUUG and T-Dose meetings are mostly like preaching to
> the choir. The curious TED crowd might just be tech-savvy enough to be
> persuaded to give a lot of FOSS software a go. Also having a crowd that has
> all sorts of different backgrounds might be another plus. A bigger chance
> that different groups might start understanding, caring or even using Open
> Source.
>

Brilliant!


>
> The next TED event in Amsterdam (biggest in the Netherlands) is on the
> 30th of November. I have not contacted them (yet), but I do wonder if we
> could at least flyer near the entrance. If I remember correctly, someone in
> the organisation is a Linux engineer, but even if I am mistaken the FSFE
> seems like the kind of organisation they'd be open to.
>
> Anyways, what do you think? Good idea?
>
>
Yes good idea. Problem is that due to the short notice and all the
appointments for work I have on that day, I will be unable to attend.
Although I actually would really like to hear/see the talks myself ;)

However I could arrange for flyers, either via Rainer (or maybe help
translating/make them and getting those to the right people). Otherwise the
next TED talk in AMS I can arrange for a day off work.

Can anybody make some time to flyer the 30th november (given we can get
permission)?

Am I correct that you had the idea last year to do something in AMS on
Liberation Day? That's also a great idea and it would be nice to arrange to
flyer or have a booth somehow somewhere in AMS on that day.

Kind regards,

Maurice


> Deborah
> ______________________________**_________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/**mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl<https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl>
>

-- 
"About innovation happens elsewhere: Innovation happens actually
everywhere, but there is simply more elsewhere than here."
- Ron Goldman
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From m.verheesen at gmail.com  Sun Nov 18 21:14:49 2012
From: m.verheesen at gmail.com (Maurice Verheesen)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:14:49 +0100
Subject: TED and FSFE addendum
In-Reply-To: <50A81AAE.4050203@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <50A81AAE.4050203@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CALyrUk4Pje1y2wq=RQx=QQK4URSH5gez4dbMy0S52PvX=Xs5ew@mail.gmail.com>

Cool! I'll see what I can do. I've held a talk at the InfoSecurity venue (
http://www.infosecurity.nl/nl-nl/Bezoeker/Activiteiten/Seminarprogramma.aspx)
this year about the history of Free Software and the motivation of the
developers in relation to security and security tooling. Very large crowd
(>60 people). But TED really is a huge next step. I'll try to contact them
see if they will consider a talk about Software Freedom.


2012/11/18 Dutchess <spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk>

> Hey everyone,
>
> I forgot to mention that there is also a TED event in Eindhoven. The next
> one will be next year. Maybe someone is willing to pitch there? I am not
> much of a speaker and perhaps not informed enough on the topic as well.
> http://tedxbrainport.nl This year most talks were very commercial, so
> some actual philantropy seems good. :)
>
> Deborah
> ______________________________**_________________
> FSFE-BNL mailing list
> FSFE-BNL at fsfeurope.org
> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/**mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl<https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-bnl>
>



-- 
"About innovation happens elsewhere: Innovation happens actually
everywhere, but there is simply more elsewhere than here."
- Ron Goldman
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From jelle at fsfe.org  Mon Nov 19 10:00:49 2012
From: jelle at fsfe.org (Jelle Hermsen)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:00:49 +0100
Subject: TED and FSFE addendum
In-Reply-To: <CALyrUk4Pje1y2wq=RQx=QQK4URSH5gez4dbMy0S52PvX=Xs5ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50A81AAE.4050203@yahoo.co.uk>
	<CALyrUk4Pje1y2wq=RQx=QQK4URSH5gez4dbMy0S52PvX=Xs5ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82EDF77C-48AF-44CC-AC9E-F13A8A873542@fsfe.org>

TEDx surely isn't like preaching to the choir which makes it a very good idea. It might also be a good idea to take a look at TEDx Eutropolis. They are familiar with us, because  Karsten Gerloff did an excellent talk for them in Heerlen in 2010:
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNhlOlGInHE
Torrent: http://download.fsfe.org/torrents/TEDxEutropolis-Karsten_Gerloff-Power_and_Freedom.ogv.torrent

My wife did a mini talk at TEDx Amsterdam a while ago and from what I hear the audience consists of mostly corporate suits, so that's quite a leap from the typical freedom beards, which could prove useful.

Cheers,
Jelle





On Nov 18, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Maurice Verheesen <m.verheesen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Cool! I'll see what I can do. I've held a talk at the InfoSecurity venue (http://www.infosecurity.nl/nl-nl/Bezoeker/Activiteiten/Seminarprogramma.aspx) this year about the history of Free Software and the motivation of the developers in relation to security and security tooling. Very large crowd (>60 people). But TED really is a huge next step. I'll try to contact them see if they will consider a talk about Software Freedom.
> 
> 
> 2012/11/18 Dutchess <spa8blauw at yahoo.co.uk>
> Hey everyone,
> 
> I forgot to mention that there is also a TED event in Eindhoven. The next one will be next year. Maybe someone is willing to pitch there? I am not much of a speaker and perhaps not informed enough on the topic as well.
> http://tedxbrainport.nl This year most talks were very commercial, so some actual philantropy seems good. :)
> 
> Deborah
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> 
> 
> -- 
> "About innovation happens elsewhere: Innovation happens actually everywhere, but there is simply more elsewhere than here."
> - Ron Goldman
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